Please share your center channel experiences

[Rick Sykora]

Given how important the center channel speaker is to a great home theater, I have probably wasted more time and money making one work for me.

The standard advice for years has been to match the center to the other main speakers. I have tried this by buying a matching center channel and by using one that is the same as the stereo pair. In almost every case, I did not get a nice blending of the center sound with the other speakers. My main complaint has been that I rarely found that sounds appeared to come from the tv. Usually the sound localized to the center speaker and was distractingly annoying.

My current solution deploys an omnidirectional speaker as a center and it works very well. Since my stereo speakers are CBTs, using another CBT was not an option. I have heard others claim good results with centers using more traditional monopoles, but now that the forum has enough center channel speaker measurements to consider, it is pretty clear that many of them do not live up to being good speakers (much less being the most important one!). Am sure there are some, but if the measurements can be relied upon, they appear to be a small minority.

So, in the hope of helping others get better results, please share your center channel experience and whether it required any special speaker or placement to yield good results.

Thanks!

Rick

 

[Trdat]

Well, I am keen to explain my rogue concept on my mutlichannel setup which on paper sounds decent but I have not yet tested it yet, nearly there. Just not sure if we are talking about movie theatre or any surround set up regardless if its for music or movies?

I have triamped mains(Audiolense) for the left/right which are with a Dayton PHRN 1014 horn and a 15 inch while my front side surrounds(I hate speakers at the back) will be a passive 3 way wide dispersion horizontally placed(Troel 3WC). I have emulated this passive wide dispersion speaker for the centre using a Hypex plate amp and a waveguide this way I can experiment between Jriver JRSS upmixing using my UDIO-8 and Dolby PL2 on my Marantz AVR. Which will be all DSP'd regardless of set up.

The centre speaker is slighlty flawed in its design with a waveguide that is more for narrowing of directivity for the tweeter and decrease in distortion rather control of directivity at crossover.

The theory is that the front surrounds(wide dispersion) will add the needed reflections and reverb to enhance the music, actually placed between the wall and my large horns(massive cabinet) which will add even more reflections but after 12ms. While the mains have controlled directivity and the centre also has some type of narrow directivity(supposedly). Mixing the 3 way(Troel 3WC) with the mains(Horn) is unconventional but it was the only way affordable and practical way I could set this up, so I will measure and make a thread to get some feedback when I get to it. I have been working on it for 2 years.

I know everyone is thinking why not just use the 3 way for L/C/R and horn for side surrounds but once you go horn you can't go back. So I have to use the horns for the mains and for practical reasons the horizontally placed hypexed speaker can go under TV.

I am hoping the centre channel provides what I am looking for!

 

[sarumbear]

Since my stereo speakers are CBTs, using another CBT was not an option.

Why using a CBT for the centre speaker not an option? Is that due to height availability below the TV?

 

[Rick Sykora]

A quick list of speakers I have tried to use as centers over the years.:

• HTD Level 2s - inexpensive and first home theater speakers used as LCR
• Mirage MC-4 center - bought from local shop after the matching HTD experiment failed
• Zaph 5.2 Center - Figured would build one to match Zaph MTMs
• Zaph 5.2 MT - When specific center did not match well, tried to use one matching the stereo MTMs
• Dayton Audio CCS-33B center - Was inexpensive, but worked better than most as has a vertical midrange/tweeter arrangement
• Signet LCR - big center bought to match my Signet SL280s as I got used and thought it was worth a try
• Mirage OMD-5 - a omnidirectional bookshelf speaker that serves well as my current center and works well

All of these were used with high quality Denon or Onkyo AVRs. I have also tried positions above the tv and below. Have tried mounting on brackets above or stand below tv. Have also tried angling towards listening positioning as a potential fix...

 

[Trdat]

Its fascinating how you have chosen an omnidirectional for centre and that it works well.

Would there be any intereference between the centre and the mains if they overlapp to much?

 

[RickSanchez]

I'm not familiar with all the speakers in your list, so maybe this question is moot: have you ever tried a coaxial center channel?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Why using a CBT for the centre speaker not an option? Is that due to height availability below the TV?

Why using a CBT for the centre speaker not an option? Is that due to height availability below the TV?

Yes, more specifically, a matching CBT24 would very much compromise the view as they are taller than my Samsumg plasma tv which is mounted at eye level when seated.

 

[Rick Sykora]

I'm not familiar with all the speakers in your list, so maybe this question is moot: have you ever tried a coaxial center channel?

no, was recently still on my list to try, but we could not find suitable coaxial driver to use for a Directiva build.

 

[sarumbear]

Yes, more specifically, a matching CBT24 would very much compromise the view as they are taller than my Samsumg plasma tv which is mounted at eye level when seated.

I tried the 2-way JBL CBT that @amirm tested as LCR, all on the floor and TV bottom at 70cm. I couldn’t perceive any localisation, not even in stereo with only LR. It was not a good experience for me. I did like them very much as surrounds though. Still using them.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Its fascinating how you have chosen an omnidirectional for centre and that it works well.

Would there be any intereference between the centre and the mains if they overlapp to much?

Given the wide horizontal radiation of the CBT24s am pretty sure there is overlap. Can only speculate what happens with too much overlap but AFAIK have not experienced.

 

[bogart]

I wish I had more to add that was definitive. I too had poor experiences with center channels. Eventually I bought the Martin Logan Cinema-i center with the hopes that it would be a cure all.

I don’t actually know if I liked it. It was so large that it was difficult to place, and I had to use it angled up to make it work. In theory it is a 3-way… I would actually love to see a spin of it to characterize its performance and sound field. That thing was always a mystery to me, though sadly it was sold a few years ago.

My maybe not helpful conclusion is to revert to two channel with better speakers and rely on a phantom center

 

[Trell]

I replaced a horizontal 2.5 way MTM with a bookshelf, and that markedly improved dialogue intelligibility when not sitting in MLP. Even for MLP the dialogue intelligibility was improved.

 

[abdo123]

why is using a CBT for the center not an option?

It would make a GREAT center because of the sublime vertical (in the center's case horizontal) directivity.

Edit: just checked the post above.

 

[Urvile]

After a few goes I got a L400 https://www.polkaudio.com/en-us/product/center-channel-speakers/legend-l400
here is a review https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/polk-l200-l400
I like it a lot

 

[SimpleTheater]

Many years ago I setup my home theater with an acoustically transparent screen. Three speakers are all at the exact same height, and dialog comes from the center of the screen. Best decision I ever made as I see lots of compromises (angling the speaker up or down) or using phantom stereo to create the center channel effect (which is hit or miss if you aren't sitting in the sweet spot) .

 

[Chrise36]

Given how important the center channel speaker is to a great home theater, I have probably wasted more time and money making one work for me.

The standard advice for years has been to match the center to the other main speakers. I have tried this by buying a matching center channel and by using one that is the same as the stereo pair. In almost every case, I did not get a nice blending of the center sound with the other speakers. My main complaint has been that I rarely found that sounds appeared to come from the tv. Usually the sound localized to the center speaker and was distractingly annoying.

My current solution deploys an omnidirectional speaker as a center and it works very well. Since my stereo speakers are CBTs, using another CBT was not an option. I have heard others claim good results with centers using more traditional monopoles, but now that the forum has enough center channel speaker measurements to consider, it is pretty clear that many of them do not live up to being good speakers (much less being the most important one!). Am sure there are some, but if the measurements can be relied upon, they appear to be a small minority.

So, in the hope of helping others get better results, please share your center channel experience and whether it required any special speaker or placement to yield good results.

Thanks!

Rick

The best imaging came from the tv's side speakers working in mono it would be interesting to see two CBT working like this.

 

[Rick Sykora]

After a few goes I got a L400 https://www.polkaudio.com/en-us/product/center-channel-speakers/legend-l400
here is a review https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/polk-l200-l400
I like it a lot

Thanks!

Does look as though Polk actually put some effort into that center.

 

[dannut]

I rarely found that sounds appeared to come from the tv. Usually the sound localized to the center speaker and was distractingly annoying.

Yes, discreet, steered centre has a way to localize itself to.. itself. It appears from your description you already tried a non-defective centre speaker. You could try couple things:

• make centre less localizable. Hard-panned vocals are a mistake in mixing, sadly movie mixers haven't got the memo. You could try to downmix a discrete mix to 2ch and then upmix with a music upmixer (Gerzon matrix; Dolby PL2 Music; Logic7)
• deliberately make the centre with a broad dispersion - think 120deg+. ASW broadening due to sidewall reflections to the rescue!
• if you don't have speakers behind AT screen, try psychoacoustic tricks to elevate vocals (below screen speaker) or vice-versa. It is highly individual, but you can elevate apparent source position by manipulating the 6-10kHz region. Yes - it requires a custom target for your centre speaker. Not all AVR-s are customizable that way.

 

[Madjalapeno]

Current set up (but changes weekly):

TV listening: Tritrix MTM towers for L & R, KEF Q150 for C (KEF is angled up)
Movie listening: Move, and angle the MTM's perpendicular to the MLP & use the LX521's for L, R with KEF Q150 for C

I wanted to retire the TriTrix, but it's too much hassle swapping the amp inputs and powering everything up. Working on simplifying everything.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I am redesigning my TV media stand just for this reason.

I debated about using my upcoming bmr in a horizontal configuration with the tweeter rotated. Dennis has said good things about this as a potential good candidate. +/- 40 degrees before issues.

But after seeing all the center reviews, I decided just to rebuild a media stand that can have the bmr vertical. That way there is no more compromise.

I would still love to see that bmr horizontal orientation measured. You can't just look at the vertical bmr information since you've now rotated the tweeter for optimal horizontal orientation. I think it would work surprisingly well compared to a lot of centers. At $850 a bmr from Dennis, that isn't a bad price either!