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Please recommend me proven compact subwoofer design

I may add a thing or two ;). In Europe we do not have such discount subwoofer brands as there are in the US. When these subs are sold here the cost 50% more.
The factory to customer thing doesn't work in Europe. Nubert and Teufel are no discount deal but pretty pricy.
A DIYS sub made from components costing 500€ can play in the high end league without a problem if you know what to pick. What you do not get is automated room correction directly from the sub. This is of limited value anyway, as it only sees the sub. A better way is to adjust the sub manually (by DSP) for the room and let a good room correction (Maranz = Audessey) then match it to the other speakers.
If you are not into home theater, a sub tuned to 30-35Hz is fine for music in 99% of all cases. Two 10" are fine for that in 55 square meter. If want to go deeper for HT, 20-25 Hz tuning will need two 12" in your room. With the sub housed in a 40cm cube and external amp, you will end up with a net volume of about 45-50 liter, closed and filled with some damping material. This is on the small side for 12" and quite large for 10".

Plate amps are overpriced for the little they offer. PA amps are less than half the price if you compare objectively. One thing about PA amps and pro DSP, you hardly loose any money when you decide to sell them. Just have a look at eBay. In Europe Thomann will sell you it's "t.amp" line, which has become a standard over the years. They are HIFI quality soundwise and far better suited for sub work because of their reserves no HIFI amp even 2 times the price can match. You don't find plate amps but only PA stuff in any serious home cinema installation for a reason. Maybe have a look at the wheight to get an idea what power supply works inside, if these are build conventional.
If you look for 12" sub chassis, I would choose a Dayton or the Eminece LAB12. Mind that Dayton is much more expensive in Europe! So the recommendations from the US may not fit your bill.
If you don't mind a bit unconventional, there is a very good Alpine 12" of German design for under 100€: https://www.ebay.de/itm/274392231518
The chassis is solid steel and it's performance is great. A "secret tipp" for multi chassis sub installation and maybe the best low cost 12" sub around. Perfect for 40-50 litre. Don't drive it with an 80 Watt plate amp!
With 10" also have a look at the Reckhorn chassis, which have the best value for money IMO. At 90€ each, use 2 per cube and you are a happy camper. Another good sub chassis is the REDCATT SW10.4 PC at 125€. Both are exceptional value usually found in the 200€ class.
Please keep an eye on the nominal impedance if you want to use more than one chassis. A PA amp will drive two chassis in any case, a single mono plate amp will not like less than 4 Ohm.
I prefer a pair of chassis with a linear excursion of about 12mm over a single one with 24mm, independent of price. The larger cone area sounds relaxter than huge excursions of extreme chassis which are more suited for space saving in car audio, even as the moved air volume is identical.
With subwoofer chassis cone area x excursion are what counts. The TSP data tell you which cabinet they need. WinISD is a free and precise tool to calculate closed and vented constructions. It is very usefull for comparing a number of chassis.
You can basically trade volume for amp power. If you lift the response by 3dB you need twice the power. A strong argument for vented constructions.
 
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Can you please recommend me proven subwoofer design thats relatively compact. Ie. cube with sides < 40cm (or 16in in your units). I am in EU and my budget is <500 eur for driver and amp of single unit. I plan to build two.

Not really sure I will be able to beat the commercial options at thie price range, yet I have woodworking tools and some skills and I enjoy the process of building the cabinets myself.

I really do not have much of experience of designing and measuring speakers, so I am looking for a proven design to follow exactly.

thank you
Lots of kits here:
 
Maybe you have not realized that there is nothing complicated about building a sub, that is why no "proven subwoofer design!" turns up.
If someone showed one, the second question will be "can I make it a little smaller, wider or can I use another woofer, as designing a subwoofer for a situation is a very personal thing. You pick size and form you like and then look for drivers that work inside the volume your design has. In your case 40x40x40cm = 64 litre brutto.
I attach a simulation of a 50 litre cabinet with the mentioned 89€ Alpine driver. The upper curve is vented, the lower closed, both driven with 250 Watt. The vented version is about 5 dB louder in the relevant area. The closed version can not reach that level, because of power and excursion limits.
Anyway, don't see these curve as what you get inside your room. Depending on the position it will reach much lower than simulated. In most cases you will put it at a wall, increasing level. Even in a corner is an option, depending on the construction.
Another thing you can see, 250 Watt is not much power for a subwoofer, so the amp I mentioned, at ca. 2x400W is not overkill, but reasonable.
I have build an installation focused on music with two 10" and a 2x 250W amp, corrected by Audessey multeq xt32. Inside a very high 50sqm room. With loud music it is fine as predicted, with home cinema it is easily driven into clipping. Low frequency effects take all the power they can. For a next build he want's two 12" and a larger amp...

Alpine swg1244_winISD.jpg




If you dig deeper into this stuff: The most expensive thing about it is the work you do. Small cabinets don't really come cheaper than large ones. Better take a little larger than you think instead of starting over again because you are missing something. 100€ saved can get quite expensive when you are not satisfied and build a second installation.

This can be a blueprint for your sub: https://oaudio.de/mediafiles/Gehaeuse/r1008_redcatt-subwoofer-10-br_Drawing_v1.pdf
 
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I may add a thing or two ;). In Europe we do not have such discount subwoofer brands as there are in the US. When these subs are sold here the cost 50% more.
The factory to customer thing doesn't work in Europe. Nubert and Teufel are no discount deal but pretty pricy.
A DIYS sub made from components costing 500€ can play in the high end league without a problem if you know what to pick. What you do not get is automated room correction directly from the sub. This is of limited value anyway, as it only sees the sub. A better way is to adjust the sub manually (by DSP) for the room and let a good room correction (Maranz = Audessey) then match it to the other speakers.
If you are not into home theater, a sub tuned to 30-35Hz is fine for music in 99% of all cases. Two 10" are fine for that in 55 square meter. If want to go deeper for HT, 20-25 Hz tuning will need two 12" in your room. With the sub housed in a 40cm cube and external amp, you will end up with a net volume of about 45-50 liter, closed and filled with some damping material. This is on the small side for 12" and quite large for 10".

You are right about prices. Almost everything is more expensive in EU compared to the USA. But certain brands and stuff is a lot more expensive : for example SVS subs, Dayton drivers. Even the AVRs are much cheaper over there. SVS subs are great deal in the USA, not so much in EU.

Thank you for you recommendations. I got why they are no reference sub designs, as anyway everything will be corrected and it is much depended to the enviroment.

Can you guys please tell me if in case of Audessey calibration I still need DSPable sub. Is DSP + Audessey better than just Audessey?
 
As I wrote, you should DSP your sub to the best you can do, then lock it and let Audyssey do the integration into your system.
Audyssey does time correction and some equalizing, but can not make the sub flat in the low region.

Why is easy to understand: It doesn't know how much reserve your sub has, amp and frequency wise.
For example a 12" and an 8" sub may measure identical in the room when set to identical 70dB.
What Audyssey does not see, the 8" is a ported cabinet with an 80 Watt rms amp.
The 12" is a closed cabinet with a 350 Watt rms.
You can not DSP the 8" to 25 Hz at 95 Db as it will bottom out and the amp clip.
The closed 12" has a falling response, but you can DSP it as linear as you wish.
This is why you first set the DSP and let Audyssey do the fine tuning. Mainly reducing peaks, match for different position and phase.

Yes. For a good set-up you should measure your room with a microphone and no, you can not use the one from the Marantz.
 
PS maybe get an idea about dB stuff. If you have one sub and use one channel of a stereo amp as a base, you get + 3dB from a second sub and + 3dB from using the second channel of the amp. So double cone area + double input power = + 6dB. For the next 6dB you need another 2 chassis and a second amp...

Missing picture of simulation:
 

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  • Alpine swg1244_winISD.jpg
    Alpine swg1244_winISD.jpg
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If you want to go DIY then I'd recommend against plate amps: a compact enclosure is the worst place to put an amp, plus they need two cables and more spacing from the wall for both connector housings and power dissipation...
Dear Thomas, if this is not too much to ask I am considering building a sub for myself. Do you have a budget external amp/driver combo that you had good results with and can you refer to a suitable box design?
 
I built a pair of subwoofers in 1.5 cubic foot sealed enclosures using a Scan-Speak Revelator 13" Subwoofer - 32W/4878T. They are used with Focal Diablo Utopia Colour EVO’s. Their prices when I built these 5 or 6 years ago might have been close to your budget and size but they seem to have gone up, at least in the USA. Amazing subwoofers.

I use bass management with an Anthem STR preamp's Room Correction (ARC Genesis). My amp for the subs is a SpeakerPower SP2-1400-HT.

I used a Baltic Birch/MDF laminate for the front and back, 3/4-inch MDF for the sides, a Baltic Birch brace on the inside with a BB tie in to the back, finished with 1/4-inch oak boards for the sides and 2 inches for the front, 4 inch wide glued together. I used an ebony stain and finish with a clear satin finish.

I’m not claiming they will save you money but for me it is a hobby and a labor of love. The amp I use alone may be over your budget.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/32w-4878t00.pdf


Scan_Speak_32W_4878T_Family_Room_Collage_1600p.jpg Anthem_STR_FL_FR_Sub1_Sub2_ARC_08302025_Rev_Screenshot_1600p.jpg
 
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One option is to buy a PA dsp amp, Crown Xli for example, a couple of sub drivers and build the boxes. It is cheaper than getting subs with similar performance from a store but building and finishing is time consuming and one needs the proper tools of course. And a proper place.

I'd go for a pair of used SVS subs or similar. Elac also makes nice subs.
 
budget external amp/driver combo
I hope you already have external processing capabilities, right?
Then you only need a power amp. Any decent power amp with enough power for the drivers and enclosures you're using will do.
The driver(s) can be any decent driver(s) with sufficient displacement in the enclosures used, provided they can handle the power applied. For example, the JBL 2269H is better than a no-name car subwoofer costing $40; but the former is more expensive.
The enclosure, of course :cool: , can be any decent one. A sufficiently sturdy box would be better. The criteria for enclosure volume include the room design, the parameters of the driver used, and the permissible power when using equalization.
Take into account the room's transfer function (RTF). In general case RTF for any\every placement of the transducer and listener\mic can be easily estimated by using virtually any driver in a sealed enclosure and comparing the in-room measurement with the anechoic frequency response of that driver in that enclosure.

A practical application of what has been said can be found, for example, in the signature. The 200-liter enclosures were partly dictated by the materials and components I had available. I could have made 100-liter enclosures and gotten 3 dB less at 20 Hz, with the possibility of later equalizing those 3 dB at 20 Hz.

ps: These are anechoic measurements. And if you don't listen at high volume, it might(?) be harmless:
1769342703134.png

I don't want to buy something like that (and I don't buy it).

It would be interesting to see the Thiele-Small parameters of these drivers)) The electrical frequency response of the amplifier output in ready-made subwoofers is also somewhat (less than TS) interesting.
 
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Any decent power amp with enough power for the drivers and enclosures you're using will do
i believe many amps struggle with sub region, thats why Amir recently added 40hz output measurement to its amp tests set.

The driver(s) can be any decent driver(s) with sufficient displacement in the enclosures used, provided they can handle the power applied. For example, the JBL 2269X is better than a no-name car subwoofer costing $40; but the former is more expensive.

I recently looked through several subwoofer drivers and noticed that they don’t specify THD%, which is the main metric for loudspeaker drivers. Are there other criteria by which you can decide whether a sub driver is good or bad?

The criteria for enclosure volume include the room design, the parameters of the driver used, and the permissible power when using equalization.

Can you please explain further how those are related? If I see “sealed box: 9–21 L” in the datasheet for my driver, for example, how can I calculate the optimal volume for my room and expected power output? How are passive radiators related to the box volume?

sorry for a lot of questions it's just an interesting topic for me.
 
many amps struggle with sub region, thats why Amir recently added 40hz output measurement
Good. Thanks! Of course, such amplifiers are not decent enough.))
they don’t specify
Independent measurements are rarely available, in particular with a high level signal. Luck (both good and bad) is possible, especially when buying unknown drivers. Reasonable overkill :) always helps, but increases size and cost.
If I see “sealed box: 9–21 L”
that at best, this is a subwoofer for a desktop system)). I don't give much thought to anechoic "optimums," such as a Q factor of .707, for subwoofers. Ultimately, it all comes down to available displacement (a function of frequency) and the listener's needs in terms of amplitude and frequency.

No apologies necessary, feel free to ask)

ps: for nearfield\desktop the result is often close to an anechoic and commonly used calculators can be used without taking RTF into account.
pps: What exactly are you planning to build, @solawind ? The room and placement, box size, the intended drivers?..
 
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that at best, this is a subwoofer for a desktop system

indeed, it's a shallow 10' driver

What exactly are you planning to build

I just got a spare SW26DBAC76 driver rated at 300 W from a car project and I’m thinking if I could get any useful use from it for my desktop monitors. The https://www.wisdomaudio.com/product/s10/ sub uses the same driver (mine is dual coil, but I believe it does not matter). I was assuming such sealed box design should be the simplest one. The point is, there is very contradictory information about "proper" box construction and volume calculation even for such a simple case
 
SW26DBAC76
https://audioxpress.com/article/tes...-shallow-mounting-subwoofer-from-sb-acoustics distortion measurement was made with the microphone placed near-field (10cm) with the woofer mounted in free air at 8.2 V, which corresponds to the [one way] displacement
1769364746036.png

For dual coil in 2pi space, anechoic, in 12 (black) and 21(gray) litres sealed, 34,6 V (300 W @ 4Ohm):
1769365934710.png

1769365953212.png

What to do about this? Well, I already wrote about it in the previous post. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's still not entirely clear :)
"proper" box
It depends. The definition of what constitutes a "proper" box may vary depending on the purpose and circumstances.

Just for fun. If I replace my four 18-inch drivers with 16 pcs of SW26DBAC76-3-DV in my enclosures, acoustical power at 16 Hz will remain the same with the same amplification, but acoustical power at higher frequencies will be several dB lower.
 
Give that driver 40 liters of closed volume and you will get a first class sub. 20 liters will disappoint you.
Air is cheap, why build a too small enclosure? Give it what it needs. You get more, lower bass for less amplfier power.
 
Too tall of a task. Budgets do weight heavy. I'd pass until budget gets to a level where it can make difference for 2 subs. Tricky to say what that point is though.
 
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