Please help choose: PS Audio Direct Stream 1 vs Pecan Pie+ Premium

[celloforever]

I am in the market for a streamer and being offered two great streamers at pretty much the same price.

1. PS Audio Direct Stream 1 with Bridge ii

2. Orchard Audio Pecan Pie+ Premium

I will be using it primarily for streaming Qobuz files.

Running through a Proceed AMP 5 to Martin Logan ESL IIz electrostatic speakers and REL subwoofer attached to the amp through Hi Level rel cable.

If the price is the same for both units, what is the better choice as far the sound fidelity?

The 6 year old PS Audio or the the new Pie+ Premium?

And which interface will be the easiest to use for streaming?

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated.

 

[DVDdoug]

what is the better choice as far the sound fidelity?

They should both be better than human hearing. Most of the "sound quality" comes from speakers. If you like your speakers and whatever music you're playing, you'll like the sound!

through Hi Level rel cable.

Cables don't make a difference either (unless they are defective).

Digital is "just data" and as long as it gets from point-A to point-B without being interrupted it's usually perfect. If there's a misspelling in my post here, you can be pretty sure it was me, and not data corruption through all of the different connections over the Internet. If it does get corrupted it's usually BAD and obvious with gaps in the sound or some gross clicks and pops. You don't get a loss of bass or a loss of "clarity" or "soundstage", or anything subtle like that. Another of my analogies is your bank account. One bit flipped from a 0 to 1, or vice versa, is equally likely to cause a 1-cent error or a billion dollar error! The difference is, audio and video has to "stream" smoothly" and you get a glitch if it's interrupted. There are buffers and error checking so the stream can be interrupted or corrected for a period of time as long as the buffer doesn't "run dry" (buffer underflow).

And most DACs are simply better than human hearing.

There is a TON of "audiophile nonsense" out there but this is Scientific Audio Review and we believe in measurements and blind listening tests.

And which interface will be the easiest to use for streaming?

I have no idea but that's probably the most important consideration. Or whichever looks better or if you can find out which one is more reliable, etc.

...Some more information that might help with the "audiophile nonsense:... Or maybe it will make you mad!

Audiophoolery is an article mostly about the few REAL characteristics of sound quality.

And What is a blind ABX test? and Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests (YouTube video).

 

[kyuu]

Unless you're getting one of those real cheap, pass on both and just get a Wiim Ultra.

 

[celloforever]

Isn't a PecanPi+ Premium a big upgrade in sound over WiiM Ultra?

 

[voodooless]

Isn't a PecanPi+ Premium a big upgrade in sound over WiiM Ultra?

Why would it?

 

[celloforever]

It has a much better DAC in it. S/N ratio is much higher. For starters.

 

[voodooless]

It has a much better DAC in it. S/N ratio is much higher. For starters.

The spec is A-weighted for the PecanPi, so you cannot directly compare this. In any case, both are inaudibly silent, and both are fully transparent.

The only advantage I see of these two options is that they offer balanced output, but a simple RCA to XLR cable will take care of that.

If you really want XLR out, maybe look at Eversolo, or separate DAC and streamer if you want more options.

 

[Roland68]

Isn't a PecanPi+ Premium a big upgrade in sound over WiiM Ultra?

It has a much better DAC in it. S/N ratio is much higher. For starters.

Do you really believe that?
With a DAC chip, integration is much more important and crucial than the DAC chip itself. A well-integrated DAC chip for €5-10 will beat a poorly implemented flagship DAC chip by a mile; with equally good implementation, an audible difference is extremely unlikely.

Regarding the measured values, I would like to see independent and comparable measurements. Although Orchid advertises good measured values, they haven't sent any of their amplifiers or DACs to Amir for testing yet. Strange, isn't it? Because if their tests are confirmed, they would generate many more sales.

And from experience with countless blinded and externally controlled tests, I can tell you that you will hardly hear any difference, even with overly well-tested DACs for €79.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Isn't a PecanPi+ Premium a big upgrade in sound over WiiM Ultra?

No

 

[BeeKay]

Seriously, if sound improvement is the goal (as it should be) consider spending money on speakers, DSP and room treatment. New sources and amplification, unless really crappy, almost never will bring anything even close to the improvement as the before mentioned changes.

 

[orchardaudio]

Do you really believe that?
With a DAC chip, integration is much more important and crucial than the DAC chip itself. A well-integrated DAC chip for €5-10 will beat a poorly implemented flagship DAC chip by a mile; with equally good implementation, an audible difference is extremely unlikely.

Regarding the measured values, I would like to see independent and comparable measurements. Although Orchid advertises good measured values, they haven't sent any of their amplifiers or DACs to Amir for testing yet. Strange, isn't it? Because if their tests are confirmed, they would generate many more sales.

And from experience with countless blinded and externally controlled tests, I can tell you that you will hardly hear any difference, even with overly well-tested DACs for €79.

3rd parties have verified all my measurements for all of my products.
For the streamer, for example, it's here:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - Orchard Audio PecanPi+ Streamer Premium DAC Measurements

www.soundstagenetwork.com

 

[DSJR]

Regarding cables - take a look at pics of an average now HUGE data centre. MILES (okay, Km) of data cables, all tied together going here and there in and out of the building and not just cooling pipes either. Where do you think the YouTube, TV/AV, Spotify, Tidal, Quboz and so on streaming music and video libraries are held - on a myriad bunch of drives or other storage forms, all feeding lord knows what down these thousands/millions of cables, this even before it's left the country of storage and sent all over the world!!! (fibre across oceans?)

Honestly, while in the digital domain, a well made, properly specified and not expensive data cable a metre or two long will be FINE if the domestic gear isn't messing around with it all due to bad design or implementation (less common these days I hope and competition is fierce). Anything that subjectivists tell you will be based on sighted comparisons at all manner of volume levels. I feel I know this, having been there for so very long in previous decades and having fooled myself on a good few occasions, even fairly recently just to rub my nose in it

 

[Roland68]

3rd parties have verified all my measurements for all of my products.
For the streamer, for example, it's here:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - Orchard Audio PecanPi+ Streamer Premium DAC Measurements

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Aside from the fact that this is an advertising site that can be neither independent nor impartial, I don't see anything special about the measured values; by ASR standards, they're good average. Some things aren't stated in a comparable way, presumably to embellish the results.
So that doesn't change the statements.

You can, of course, spend €1,000 more than you'd spend on a Wiim Ultra or a Pi 4 with an external balanced DAC (the latter, of course, plus Volumio), but you should never do an honest, leveled, and externally controlled blind test.

 

[orchardaudio]

Aside from the fact that this is an advertising site that can be neither independent nor impartial, I don't see anything special about the measured values; by ASR standards, they're good average. Some things aren't stated in a comparable way, presumably to embellish the results.
So that doesn't change the statements.

This is plain not true. Feel free to reach out to them. They take having an impartial stance on the measurements very seriously. I do not advertise with them and have not paid them any money.

 

[ivayvr]

It has a much better DAC in it. S/N ratio is much higher. For starters.

It is your money, but I wouldn't ever take either of the two you are considering.
Most reasons have been stated already in the previous posts.

 

[JeremyFife]

It has a much better DAC in it. S/N ratio is much higher. For starters.

That's the difference between inaudible noise/distortion ... and even less audible noise/distortion (but both still inaudible)

 

[somebodyelse]

Aside from the fact that this is an advertising site that can be neither independent nor impartial, I don't see anything special about the measured values; by ASR standards, they're good average. Some things aren't stated in a comparable way, presumably to embellish the results.
So that doesn't change the statements.

Orchard's Gala DAC was competent when measured here 7 years ago, and broadly in line with their claims given the different measurement conditions and weightings, so I don't see reason to doubt them. It's not something I'd buy, but it's not pretending to be something it isn't either. If you want a Pi and a decent DAC built into a half decent box with a screen, but don't want to make it yourself, it might make sense. If you're just after the measured performance there are cheaper options with more capabilities.

 

[Roland68]

This is plain not true. Feel free to reach out to them. They take having an impartial stance on the measurements very seriously. I do not advertise with them and have not paid them any money.

Sorry, I didn't see that you were the manufacturer.
I didn't mean to accuse you of anything, but I personally don't trust any website or trade magazine that's a profit-making venture and relies on advertising revenue. And that's simply based on 30 years of experience as a tester, manufacturer, or contributor in several fields (IT, diving, cycling, photography, audio/hi-fi, music, and other hobby areas).
The things I've experienced there really make you doubt everything. A notable exception were camera and lens manufacturers, who dealt with poor tests completely openly and transparently, while the specialist editors practically ran amok.

So, as I said, I'm generally skeptical of commercial test sites, but that has nothing to do with you or your products.
Personally, I think it's a real shame that you don't send any current devices to Amir to test, especially your Starkrimson and Starkrimson Ultra amplifiers (modules).

 

[scrubb]

If you're looking for a simple streamer and dac and have the patience to do some basic DIY, I would suggest the following.

Get one of these with a case, power supply, and microSD card:

Buy a Raspberry Pi 4 Model B – Raspberry Pi

Your tiny, dual-display, desktop computer …and robot brains, smart home hub, media centre, networked AI core, factory controller, and much more.

www.raspberrypi.com

Load it with this:

moodeaudio.org

moodeaudio.org

And run it through this via USB:

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

www.schiit.com

Total cost about $180.00

EDIT: I see you're using Qobuz, so you'll also need this on your mobile device:

Conversdigital

 

[celloforever]

Thanks everyone for your input!