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Please explain what I need to make Roon work...

catalogguy

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I am having trouble figuring out what I do not know about Roon… I wish to try Roon because it sounds great and I am tremendously disappointed with the alternatives I have tried for browsing and selecting music. Most of my library has been ripped from my personal CD collection (I rip each CD into both FLAC and ALAC). The files are on a desktop computer in my home office (plugged directly into the router). The sound system is in the living room.

Currently, I use a Monitor Audio A100 as a preamp/DAC/streamer using the analog outputs to my amp. The device supports DLNA and AirPlay from my desktop (over a Wi-Fi connection). However, I generally play lossless files resident on the iPhone using AirPlay Direct. My iTunes catalog is a horrible mess, and yet I think the FLAC files are nicely arranged as the folder structure aligns with the CD ripping. But the iPhone is just really convenient. I am overall pleased with the system’s sound quality.

I think I can install Roon on my desktop: the Roon library would exist on my desktop and the desktop’s processing power would do the heavy lifting. Roon would also play the files on the desktop. Then, I think, I could select the Monitor Audio A100 as the output device. I expect the sound quality would be just the same as I have today. But I would enjoy the Roon interface (with my FLAC files) and I am interested in getting Tidal as well to use with Roon.

The prospect of spending $700 for Roon makes me wonder if I could take better advantage of the investment by also getting Wi-Fi out of the equation. As the desktop has a good backup arrangement, I have thought about using an NAS. A wireless NAS could be synchronized with the FLAC files from my desktop, which are already backed up, so that I would not need to worry about backing up the NAS. Then the NAS could output USB to a DAC, etc.

But am I missing a component, an “endpoint?” I do not think I need a heavy duty NAS (or a Nucleus) since the desktop would provide the horsepower. Then how would Roon identify the NAS an as output device? And would another device be necessary to function as a player (to convert the files into an audio stream)? Like the raspberry pi approach? Now it is starting to sound like more tinkering than my schedule might permit.

Thanks for reading all this ramble, and please share any insights that might help fill the gaps in my knowledge. I am hoping to get this sorted out up front so I can take advantage of Roon’s 2-week trial listening to music rather than tinkering with mechanicals.
 

majingotan

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mkt

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I don't know if your Monitor Audio A100 will show up as a output device in Roon. Depending on whether you have more money or more time to fiddle, you could either get a newer streaming dac (more bucks) or go with a raspberry pi (few bucks).

(Chromecast Audio is discontinued but still possible to find?)

I have Roon but actually use LMS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Media_Server more, which is free, sounds just as good, organizes your files, and is much more lightweight. (And allows remote access). It is the same sort of server/client model. I put together a picoreplayer https://www.picoreplayer.org/ using a RP4, touch screen, case, and Topping D50s DAC. It works with LMS and Roon.
 

Alobar

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My advice, don't go all in with the $700 for lifetime until you get to use it for a while first. I did the 2 week trial, and then canceled after, to which I got an offer for another month free trial. After that month I still was on the fence about it (I like Roon radio) but at that time the lifetime package went up by $200 which in hindsight saved me. I paid for a year, am currently not using Roon much, and after the year is up I plan to drop it.

The reason is that I think the Roon user interface is a real mess, and so clumsy to do anything tag related in. As with you, after reading all the glowing reports about it, I was fully ready to dive in and replace JRiver as my only media center.. No longer is that the case. Roon does in fairness have some good to it too, but not at this point in its development for what I require. Audirvana is a better streaming front end imo. Spend a little time on the Roon forum and read some of the complaint threads. It has problems.. Then if the good outweighs the bad, get it for a year first. Unless $700 is just latte money, in which case dive right in.
 

amirm

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I think you want your files on a reliable storage and that would be your NAS. Roon on a PC can then access them remotely. That Roon can be the "core" or you can get "core" on your NAS if it supports it.

Next you need a DAC connection. If the DAC is a streamer and supports Roon endpoint or Airplay, Roon will recognize it and can push content to it. Note that Airplay is limited to 16 bits so no high-res audio playback. If you just have CD rips, that is fine then.

On your Apple devices, you then simply using Roon app to interact with your library and play what to where.

If you have a PC as the core, then you can just get a wired DAC to it for $99 and not mess with another network link. Wifi works fine though if it is reliable in your home.
 

Zoomer

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so I can take advantage of Roon’s 2-week trial

You can easily find a code for a 30-day trial period online, so why not just give it a try?

I started my trial a couple of days ago, but I'm really struggling to see the appeal, especially at that price point.

I suppose if your library is a mess and you're not into (manually) tagging much, Roon enhances the user experience. If, on the other hand, you're used to organising and tagging your library yourself it can be a rather frustrating experience. You can't even rate individual tracks :rolleyes:

The much-touted metadata and other "curated" info: so far I've not come across much beyond what's available from allmusic.com and musicbrainz which I was using anyway (for free).

Another user case (again, not mine) is if you have a complicated setup, want to integrate streaming, multi-room etc. Roon delivers, from what I can see.

Roon Radio in my experience is a quite rudimentary "play similar songs" feature. I read on the forums that it used to be better, before it was rewired to use artificial "intelligence".

But hey, 25 days to go, so who knows...
 
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mkt

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As a fellow LMS user, I'm curious why have both? Is it just for Roon's expanded metadata/information features?
Having both probably makes no sense. :)

Compared to LMS, I think that Roon offers better integration with streaming services and wider hardware support. On the other hand, I have an inordinate fondness for the ability to customize the "now playing display" in LMS.
 

Apesbrain

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On the other hand, I have an inordinate fondness for the ability to customize the "now playing display" in LMS.
Cool, have you tried "Material Skin" plugin? Very nice alternative UI for browser and mobile control of LMS. Has a nice full-screen "now playing" view.

My non-Material "Now Playing" looks like below. Has keyboard control of volume and track.

Clipboard01.jpg
 

Neddy

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No idea on Roon (yet).

But, FWIW, I had a setup similar to yours, PC in the office with music files on it, and main listening system in the living room on another floor, and accessed files on via a share drive on the PC over a powerline LAN link.
(While Wifi worked mostly ok, it would stutter on the few HiRes (DSD64/256) files I have, and PLAN was just simpler, and 'more' secure.)

So I looked into getting a NAS, but realized that just buying a used NUC for the main system would be cheaper.

I still had occasional stutters (via powerline LAN) so decided to move my main music library to a 4TB USB drive on the NUC, and will replicated that back to the share drive on the desktop for back up purposes (and local access on that machine).
That seems to be The Fix - no problems at all anymore (well, it takes JRiver a few moments to 'load up' a DSD256 Mch file:)
The only 'weirdness' about that setup is having to run the music player software from the PC upstairs, meaning (in my case) a hookup to the upstairs TV and a wireless keyboard...neither of which is a hardship at all. (And haven't tried the various 'remote' solutions yet, like a W10 tablet).

Regarding music players:
I'm still learning JRiver, and think I need the features it has for my multichannel system (though I'm doing 2.1 RoomEQ downstream of the DAC).
But I have to say I'm not that impressed with it (as a former Apps Dev Project Manager for 20yrs) - I think MusicBee is far better structured, has a much cleaner UI, and does not appear to have the spaghetti code symptoms of JR.) And is free.

Someday I'll give Roon a try - but from the comments above, don't expect it to 'solve' any of my 'issues'.
None of these players - as near I can tell - help with the things I'd like to see: the ability to display (readable!) artwork and liner notes/reviews - while playing tracks - many of mine are in PDF format.
MusicBee will rotate in and out any jpg/png files you have attached or embedded in the FLAC files, so it's a bit better in that regard.
Best Wishes!!
 

mkt

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Cool, have you tried "Material Skin" plugin? Very nice alternative UI for browser and mobile control of LMS. Has a nice full-screen "now playing" view.

My non-Material "Now Playing" looks like below. Has keyboard control of volume and track.

View attachment 49316
Wow.
 

JohnKay

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I have been using Roon for 3 years as my main system with a local library of 9000 tracks. For me it has been (and still is) a love / hate experience. I got the lifetime subscription back then so no annual fee for me.

If you don't care about multiroom playback and you only wish to use Roon in a single room / system then things are quire simple. Great advice in the above comments: Just run Roon on your PC / Mac and connect your dac to it. If your computer is not your main listening location then I strongly recommend an RPi streamer like the Allo Digi One. This offers a coax out which you connect to your dac (wherever that is). Very little tinkering required if you use Allo Digi One with Volumio (OS). You can even stick a usb wifi dongle and run it with WiFi. Very stable and fantastic sound.

I use Roon in a multiroom use case (main system + 2 other rooms) and it has been endless tinkering, debugging and adjusting. There are too many variables to adjust (hardware and software), too many things that can break ... and things do 'break' unfortuantely. I went from using sonos units (connect + 2 Play 1s) to Naim + Allo Digi One, to all RPi to Bluesound and finally a combination of Bluesound + Allo Digi One. Different issues with each. As I want to achieve synced multiroom playback, Roon is the only software that allows me to tweak and achieve the right timing adjustments between rooms. To my ears, the sound quality via Roon is superior to streaming the same files (AIFF lossless) via Airplay 2. Even itunes lossy downloads (AAC) sound better when played via Roon as compared to the same files streamed directly from my iPhone (Airplay 2) to the same system. It could be psychology of course... however, I find Airplay 2 streaming sounds slightly compressed and lifeless and takes away part of the pleasure in listening the same tracks (even Spotify sounds a bit more lively to my ears).

I agree with the comments above, the Roon interface is not good if you wish to manage your library. iTunes (windows) and the Apple Music app which replaced iTunes on MACs is far superior in what it allows you to do with smart playlists, automatic categorisations, tagging, etc. Add the fact that it all transfers to your iOS device and that how playback integrates with these devices... Ergonomics are through the roof. If you enjoy managing your library (e.g. playlists) and streaming files via Airplay 2 from your iOS device, I think you will find Roon cumbersome. I care for the multiroom adjustements and the DSP that Roon offers (my speaker placement is far from ideal). The resulting sound is superior... when things work. Sadly things 'break' frequently and I find myself spending time in the support forum (a lot), installing ethernet adapters, rebooting, moving Roon from Windows PC to Mac and back... adjusting firewalls, adjusting router settings, delete and re-install the iOS app due to crashes, etc. I even had to replace hardware to try and achieve a hassle free operation. Not there yet... I suspect I may be cursed :p

I have been trying to revert back to the solution you mention (Airplay 2) and use Apple Music + Spotify in order to escape from the endless tinkering. My brain and ears are telling me the sound quality is inferior but I need to reduce the time and energy I spend on debugging Roon. Airplay 2 will not allow for multiroom sync adjustments so if I end up reverting, I would have to change hardware to ensure multiroom playback is in syc. Not sure what I will settle with yet but I agree with the comments above... Roon might be a pain depending on how you use it.
 
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laurelkurt

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I think you want your files on a reliable storage and that would be your NAS. Roon on a PC can then access them remotely. That Roon can be the "core" or you can get "core" on your NAS if it supports it.

Next you need a DAC connection. If the DAC is a streamer and supports Roon endpoint or Airplay, Roon will recognize it and can push content to it. Note that Airplay is limited to 16 bits so no high-res audio playback. If you just have CD rips, that is fine then.

On your Apple devices, you then simply using Roon app to interact with your library and play what to where.

If you have a PC as the core, then you can just get a wired DAC to it for $99 and not mess with another network link. Wifi works fine though if it is reliable in your home.
I've read on Roon Enthusiasts FB group that Roon core should never be connected to a DAC directly via USB or HDMI cables, as the core can add noise from all the processing going on. Is this true or BS? Someone was asking about connecting their new Topping MQA D-90 directly to the core with USB cable. I connect core to my system with USB and HDMI and can hear no difference. No noise, hum, and only hiss if I put my ear 1 inch from the tweeter.
Thanks.
 

majingotan

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I've read on Roon Enthusiasts FB group that Roon core should never be connected to a DAC directly via USB or HDMI cables, as the core can add noise from all the processing going on. Is this true or BS? Someone was asking about connecting their new Topping MQA D-90 directly to the core with USB cable. I connect core to my system with USB and HDMI and can hear no difference. No noise, hum, and only hiss if I put my ear 1 inch from the tweeter.
Thanks.

It’s of course system dependent and how badly the USB port is implemented in their PCs since not all of the PCs motherboard are engineered the same. If there are no electrical interference you hear from mouse movements or GPU activity for example (assuming ground loops aren’t an issue) then your PC is engineered correctly to be able not to cause issues with USB DAC and Roon as player. Besides, modern DACs have better noise rejection as you can see from Amir’s measurements of various DACs with various digital inputs
 

Jimbob54

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It’s of course system dependent and how badly the USB port is implemented in their PCs since not all of the PCs motherboard are engineered the same. If there are no electrical interference you hear from mouse movements or GPU activity for example (assuming ground loops aren’t an issue) then your PC is engineered correctly to be able not to cause issues with USB DAC and Roon as player. Besides, modern DACs have better noise rejection as you can see from Amir’s measurements of various DACs with various digital inputs
Ill tell you what not to do though, attach 2 or more DACs to one PC via USB and play simultaneously. Roon (at least on on my PC) did not like that. All manner of glitches.

Never had an issue with just one via USB though.
 

amirm

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I've read on Roon Enthusiasts FB group that Roon core should never be connected to a DAC directly via USB or HDMI cables, as the core can add noise from all the processing going on. Is this true or BS?
It is BS. That is they way I run my system! As noted, the only exception is if you get ground loops and such causing buzz/noise. In that case use Toslink and that should avoid it.

Let's remember that I test all the DACs with USB connection to my computer which is running my audio analyzer software which is a CPU pig and uses up an entire core just sitting there. Yet I am getting those excellent results from the well designed DACs.
 

stunta

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I paid $500 for the lifetime subscription about 2 years ago. There are many things I love about Roon and for the few months I had Tidal, the integration was nice to have especially to discover music outside of my library. In the last few months, I have run into one issue after another with Roon and although they fix them eventually, its been very annoying. One issue yet to be fixed is Roon abruptly stopped seeing my speakers on one a PC where I run the Roon client - this means I cannot use Roon on my PC to play music on that same PC which is absurd. I have tinkered with firewall settings on my core and my client to no avail. Android app has had several issues and unusable for a few weeks. My sob story aside, I agree with @Alobar - I would not recommend a lifetime sub unless its easily affordable to you.

And now, with Amazon music, I use that a lot even though the app is ****** - Roon integration to this would be super nice but doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon.
 

Jimbob54

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I paid $500 for the lifetime subscription about 2 years ago. There are many things I love about Roon and for the few months I had Tidal, the integration was nice to have especially to discover music outside of my library. In the last few months, I have run into one issue after another with Roon and although they fix them eventually, its been very annoying. One issue yet to be fixed is Roon abruptly stopped seeing my speakers on one a PC where I run the Roon client - this means I cannot use Roon on my PC to play music on that same PC which is absurd. I have tinkered with firewall settings on my core and my client to no avail. Android app has had several issues and unusable for a few weeks. My sob story aside, I agree with @Alobar - I would not recommend a lifetime sub unless its easily affordable to you.

And now, with Amazon music, I use that a lot even though the app is ****** - Roon integration to this would be super nice but doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon.
Sure you have checked, but has it disabled system output in settings, audio?
 

mkt

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Roon forums can be a little like the Bizarro World version of ARS. Every cable and every version of Roon sounds different, like a fine wine.
 

laurelkurt

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It is BS. That is they way I run my system! As noted, the only exception is if you get ground loops and such causing buzz/noise. In that case use Toslink and that should avoid it.

Let's remember that I test all the DACs with USB connection to my computer which is running my audio analyzer software which is a CPU pig and uses up an entire core just sitting there. Yet I am getting those excellent results from the well designed DACs.
Why would they make this claim? Out of abundance of caution I guess? Do they have some stake in people spending extra money? Or are they feeding into audiophile neuroses?

They recommend: "Connecting a DAC to Core will usually work, but it will never result in the best sound quality available from Roon. Roon Labs is unapologetic about Core being a CPU and memory hog. Depending on what Core is doing, it can push nearly any hardware to its limits. When this happens, the computer generates elevated levels of RFI, EMI, and often, fan noise and physical vibrations. All of these things can have a negative impact on the performance of a downstream DAC.'
 
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