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Please explain different sounding DACs

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#21
I don't think you have to worry about level matching 1 was spec'd at 2.0V and the other one 2.05V = 0.2dB apart.
As there was time between switching an exact level match is not really needed.

Your observation of the -15dB setting on the prebox and sounding the same as D70 (also at -15dB ?) seems to point at one of the DAC's not performing optimally ?

Kuddo's for doing the test. Now comes the hard part which is finding out why at -15dB you cannot tell them apart.
i've just set the prebox to -15db and set the volume higher from windows , havent changed db level on d70, but they sound more even like that.. if i set the prebox to 0db the treble is higher ( or the bass is better on d70 and sound better)

anyways i said that the test was not good, but i could identify what dac was used even if the switching took about 30 secs ( change rca/ change soundcard in windows / play the song from second xx)

i've allready orderd dx3pro and put the d70 on sale soo... i really wished to be more wrong on the blind test, but i acctualy felt the diference in sound ... specialy when many sounds play from left to right and back again .. with toping is a linear movement of sound.. with prebox is more like in small steps . maybe the prebox at max volume (0db) has something wrong
 

jsrtheta

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#22
i've just set the prebox to -15db and set the volume higher from windows , havent changed db level on d70, but they sound more even like that.. if i set the prebox to 0db the treble is higher ( or the bass is better on d70 and sound better)

anyways i said that the test was not good, but i could identify what dac was used even if the switching took about 30 secs ( change rca/ change soundcard in windows / play the song from second xx)

i've allready orderd dx3pro and put the d70 on sale soo... i really wished to be more wrong on the blind test, but i acctualy felt the diference in sound ... specialy when many sounds play from left to right and back again .. with toping is a linear movement of sound.. with prebox is more like in small steps . maybe the prebox at max volume (0db) has something wrong
I don't want to pile on, but it is very unlikely, IME, that you can accurately remember the sound of one component accurately after 30 seconds.

It is tricky, which is why the ABX comparator was invented. The switching is immediate, and you can flip between them.
 

Alobar

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#23
Taking the red pill doesn't have to be a bad thing for the audio-enthusiast btw. Personally, I've found it really liberating. I can focus on the stuff that REALLY makes a profound difference - which I've come to realize is transducers, EQ/room set up/mental state (yep, mental state lol).
I took the red pill once, got a hell of a buzz off it! And later was at dinner with someone called Smith and filet mignon was on the menu! Yum! :cool:
 

solderdude

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#24
anyways i said that the test was not good, but i could identify what dac was used even if the switching took about 30 secs ( change rca/ change soundcard in windows / play the song from second xx)
Do you have access to a decent soundcard and a second PC/laptop ?
It could be interesting to record the output of both DAC's on another PC set at 24/96 or 24/192.
Same piece of music playing. 20 seconds or so where you hear the differences.
Make sure the recording device peaks remain below -6dB.

You can then upload it (along with the original recording excerpt) and that can be nulled to hear/see what differs.
If it is that audible it must be quite measurable already.
 
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#25
Do you have access to a decent soundcard and a second PC/laptop ?
It could be interesting to record the output of both DAC's on another PC set at 24/96 or 24/192.
Same piece of music playing. 20 seconds or so where you hear the differences.
Make sure the recording device peaks remain below -6dB.

You can then upload it (along with the original recording excerpt) and that can be nulled to hear/see what differs.
If it is that audible it must be quite measurable already.
i have a asus xonar d2 , but my pc isn't properly shielded ( rca from xonar to poweramp = big floor noise, if i use spdif it's ok) , how can i record the output with what software? a tutorial somewhere?
 

solderdude

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#27
how can i record the output with what software? a tutorial somewhere?
You can do such with Audacity which is freeware sound editing software that works quite well.

There is plenty of tutorials on Audacity how to use the software and set it up.

There is nothing obvious from Amir's measurements of the Pre Box S2 nor the D70 but something could be wrong with it or driver issues... who knows.
maybe some good recordings can shed some light ?
 
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Hayabusa

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#28
You can do such with Audacity which is freeware sound editing software that works quite well.

There is plenty of tutorials on Audacity how to use the software and set it up.

There is nothing obvious from Amir's measurements of the Pre Box S2 nor the D70 but something could be wrong with it or driver issues... who knows.
maybe some good recordings can shed some light ?
I see 2 volt v.s 4 volt output, but I assume the 4 volt is because of the XLR?
I assume smok333 did swap RCA cables?
 
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#31
i did the audacity record thing, nothing different beteen the 2 dacs ... i tried the non blind test again and i don't seem to spot the difference anymore, yesterday night i checked and in windows control panel Prebox was set at 32bit 384khz and D70 was 24bits 44.1khz, i've set the prebox the same as D70..and now i don't seem to find the difference anymore
 

majingotan

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#32
i did the audacity record thing, nothing different beteen the 2 dacs ... i tried the non blind test again and i don't seem to spot the difference anymore, yesterday night i checked and in windows control panel Prebox was set at 32bit 384khz and D70 was 24bits 44.1khz, i've set the prebox the same as D70..and now i don't seem to find the difference anymore
There shouldn't be any difference in sound when all parameters are set equally to both Topping D70 and Prebox
 
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#33
What model are the speakers? Speakers are a much bigger deal than DAC for sound quality.
 

jsy

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#34
@smok333, what were your settings on the pre-box? I've got one too, and the filters and distortion compensation make an audible difference to me
 

jsy

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#36
dynaudio x14

fast rolloff - distortion compesation on ( i don't notice differences between filters)
I got nothing for you, then, sorry - those are the settings I ended up with too. I can't notice a difference between all the filters either, just some of them. Pretty much the fast rolloff group vs the slow rolloff group.
 
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#37
Human hearing isn't linear when it comes to frequency and volume. If I understand this graph well:

human hearing is more sensitive to volume changes in mids and highs, therefore any difference in volume will result in change of frequency perception.
 

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