Please don't buy acoustic panels from GIK Acoustics, they are rubbish!

[Raticosa]

a) that is simply not true and you know that, we never received any of your traps. No one would bring this up two years after they received a product, yet we still wanted to look into this and you failed to make it possible.

b) You are still making up facts and this is the problem here, ECOSE Rock wool is just as safe and ecological as the one we use in Europe, you are desperately looking for an argument why something is wrong with the panels but nothing is wrong with them. Knauf is just as easily found in the UK and doesn't cost more than Isover, you don't really seem to understand the market for building materials, which is fine but then you just make up things. We do not have two different standards, we use two different internal absorption materials that perform the same acoustically AND comply to all the same ecological and health standards. You can repeat your wrong claim over and over and it will not change anything. It is still a wrong claim. No one without an agenda would care about this as we can clearly prove that the material is just as ecological and safe. Just because you had a wrong idea about this whole topic of material science and bought the panels based upon that, doesn't change the fact that you received a product that complies to all the mentioned standards and the brand name of the material is highly irrelevant.

c) No, see above, the contract is not void because we replaced the absorption material with one that complies to the same standards, having to discuss this really is silly.

You have a lot of doubts and ideas and opinions but none of them are based on anything but your own imagination. This has nothing to do with our reputation we just don't let customers blackmail us after three years of owning a product into fully refunding them and keeping the product.

d) I don't know if you haven't read this thread but people have doubts about your story and they are right to do so. While some of the things you say are correct, the implications and claims you take away from those facts are wrong and you don't care about the actual facts which I undermined with data. Your whole approach has been dishonest and to be honest extremely shady and it shows from your attempt to now lure people into a private conversation so you could lie to them without us having a chance to correct you.

You are being dishonest, you leave out important information, you twist the narrative and you ignore the information you are given, all because we didn't give into your attempt to blackmail us. That is what happened here and you know it and people can tell.

Lukas,

This is the email from your Italian colleague Luca Mello Rella from August 2021 replying to my questions about the rockwool used (see attachment) and he also attached the datasheet of the Knauf ECOSE rockwool.

So I definitely bought my panels thinking to buy ECOSE rockwool but you cheated me.

Let people reading this forum decide if the liar is me or you.
Best.

Translation:

--------------------

Good morning Gianluca,

The wool produced by Knauf is actually different from the usual rock wool in terms of color. This is also due to the production process during which energy is saved making it more eco-sustainable than low-cost rock wool. This wool is made of non-breathable fibers and therefore would not pose health risks even if it leaked from the panel, which, unless the panel itself is damaged, will not happen either given that it is entirely covered in fabric. Not even the choice of fabric is random: we chose acoustically transparent fabrics but with textures dense enough to prevent even very small parts of rock wool from leaking out.

We openly say which companies produce the materials we use to make our products so that customers can verify the quality of the raw materials we use. On the Knauf website you should find a lot of information in this regard but I am attaching a technical data sheet from a few years ago with the main characteristics of the material.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

 

[Jimbob54]

Now that both parties have had a chance to air their cases im going to request they try and take it to a private discussion please @LukasRimbach @Raticosa .

If you can't reach a conclusion there, I'm going to propose we lock this thread in 24 hours or so.

Other members are of course entitled to question either party here but I sense this isn't going to be resolved amicably.

 

[LukasRimbach]

Lukas,

This is the email from your Italian colleague Luca Mello Rella from August 2021 replying to my questions about the rockwool used (see attachment) and he also attached the datasheet of the Knauf ECOSE rockwool.

So I definitely bought my panels thinking to buy ECOSE rockwool but you cheated me.

Let people reading this forum decide if the liar is me or you.
Best.

Translation:

--------------------

Good morning Gianluca,

The wool produced by Knauf is actually different from the usual rock wool in terms of color. This is also due to the production process during which energy is saved making it more eco-sustainable than low-cost rock wool. This wool is made of non-breathable fibers and therefore would not pose health risks even if it leaked from the panel, which, unless the panel itself is damaged, will not happen either given that it is entirely covered in fabric. Not even the choice of fabric is random: we chose acoustically transparent fabrics but with textures dense enough to prevent even very small parts of rock wool from leaking out.

We openly say which companies produce the materials we use to make our products so that customers can verify the quality of the raw materials we use. On the Knauf website you should find a lot of information in this regard but I am attaching a technical data sheet from a few years ago with the main characteristics of the material.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

None of the given info is wrong nor did we not use Knauf in Europe until we had to make the switch because of Brexit. We then found a vendor that has all the comparable certifications but produces in Europe and you happened to buy exactly in that switching period. That is all there is to this. He even mentions here what you later on criticise about our fabric use, you have been told. Read the info from isover, it is exactly the same other than the colour.

 

[LukasRimbach]

Now that both parties have had a chance to air their cases im going to request they try and take it to a private discussion please @LukasRimbach @Raticosa .

If you can't reach a conclusion there, I'm going to propose we lock this thread in 24 hours or so.

Other members are of course entitled to question either party here but I sense this isn't going to be resolved amicably.

No you are right, sorry didn't see this before replying.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Other members are of course entitled to question either party here but I sense this isn't going to be resolved amicably.

Thanks for that last sentence! I needed something to laugh about this morning.

 

[Raticosa]

GIK has a 30 day return policy- at least they do here in the United States. If not satisfied, why didn’t you return them when you could still get a refund?
Reality is - anything done outside of that time frame is purely optional. Whining about it on a “scientific” forum won’t accomplish much. I am quite surprised no one here has asked for proof of any type!

Hello Bob,

probably you didn't read my first email with attention, I wrote unfortunately I discovered just now (and I discovered it by accident, opening one) that they used a different rockwool, if I had discovered it immediately I would have contacted them immediately and sent them back.

Anyway I contacted them before buying their panels (say above the email from Luca Mello Rella) to have a confirmation of the rockwool used, they say "Yes we use Knauf ECOSE one" but used another one. Essentially he told me "We use ECOSE one so no need to put an addictive layer of fabric because it does not hurts lungs if inhaled" then put another one. Chapeau!

Last but no least, Lukas continues to say they never picked up the smellish panel in September 2023, they tried once and missed it, then they contacted me telling me they would have tried the day after (07 September 2023), GLS courier picked it up and since then I never had any additional information.
I have all the emails about this, can share with anyone.

Best.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Hello Bob,

probably you didn't read my first email with attention, I wrote unfortunately I discovered just now (and I discovered it by accident, opening one) that they used a different rockwool, if I had discovered it immediately I would have contacted them immediately and sent them back.

Anyway I contacted them before buying their panels (say above the email from Luca Mello Rella) to have a confirmation of the rockwool used, they say "Yes we use Knauf ECOSE one" but used another one. Essentially he told me "We use ECOSE one so no need to put an addictive layer of fabric because it does not hurts lungs if inhaled" then put another one. Chapeau!

Last but no least, Lukas continues to say they never picked up the smellish panel in September 2023, they tried once and missed it, then they contacted me telling me they would have tried the day after (07 September 2023), GLS courier picked it up and since then I never had any additional information.
I have all the emails about this, can share with anyone.

Best.

Hopefully, you and GIK will arrive at a suitable compromise.
Philosophically speaking, at some point it becomes "unhealthy" not to "cut your losses and move on".

 

[CapMan]

I would like the OP to edit the title of this post which is ambiguous and therefore unreasonable.

It does not clearly reflect the nature of his dispute with GIK and could easily be misconstrued.

Personally I would rather see this dealt with in private, especially since no one else has waded in with similarly negative experiences.

Just my 10c. I have no affiliation to GIK.

 

[tmtomh]

Lukas,

This is the email from your Italian colleague Luca Mello Rella from August 2021 replying to my questions about the rockwool used (see attachment) and he also attached the datasheet of the Knauf ECOSE rockwool.

So I definitely bought my panels thinking to buy ECOSE rockwool but you cheated me.

Let people reading this forum decide if the liar is me or you.
Best.

Translation:

--------------------

Good morning Gianluca,

The wool produced by Knauf is actually different from the usual rock wool in terms of color. This is also due to the production process during which energy is saved making it more eco-sustainable than low-cost rock wool. This wool is made of non-breathable fibers and therefore would not pose health risks even if it leaked from the panel, which, unless the panel itself is damaged, will not happen either given that it is entirely covered in fabric. Not even the choice of fabric is random: we chose acoustically transparent fabrics but with textures dense enough to prevent even very small parts of rock wool from leaking out.

We openly say which companies produce the materials we use to make our products so that customers can verify the quality of the raw materials we use. On the Knauf website you should find a lot of information in this regard but I am attaching a technical data sheet from a few years ago with the main characteristics of the material.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask them.

I think it is important to point out that, as GIK's @LukasRimbach has noted above, nothing in this email from Luca Mello Rella (apparently GIK Italy, yes?) supports the accusations Raticosa has made.

In my opinion, this exemplifies a very common problem with internet discussion: people provide documentation as evidence for their claims, but the doucmentation doesn't actually support their claim.

In this case the GIK Italy representative clearly states that the internal rock wool differs from Knauf rock wool "in terms of color." That is the only difference he states in the finished product. The only advantage the GIK rep notes is that the production process of the Knauf material is more "eco-sustainable," that is, it apparently uses less energy or something to that effect. That has absolutely nothing to do with the performance and safety of the finished product, which in that email the GIK representative says is unchanged.

So that email is only evidence in support of GIK's position and claims here. It provides no support for the OP's claims.

 

[raindance]

GIK makes acoustic treatment products that are accessible price-wise for normal people. They have an excellent reputation and this thread's title maligns them. Please rename this thread.

 

[mglobe]

GIK makes acoustic treatment products that are accessible price-wise for normal people. They have an excellent reputation and this thread's title maligns them. Please rename this thread.

Or remove it all together.

 

[abdo123]

I’ve been very happy with all my bass traps and didn’t notice any issues specially the issues you mentioned.

 

[Chromatischism]

My GIK Soffit traps and 244s don't smell like anything. Bought 3-4 years ago. Also, why are you vacuuming them?

 

[Somafunk]

My GIK Soffit traps and 244s don't smell like anything. Bought 3-4 years ago. Also, why are you vacuuming them?

He mentioned Dust issues, I figure he must live on Arrakis

 

[Chromatischism]

Honestly this type of absorber is pretty easy to make yourself, avoid any recriminations or disappointment and simply wrap fabric around pieces of rockwool at home. Be sure to wear gloves and a mask.

There are threads at AVS on fabric choice for acoustics.

 

[Chromatischism]

He mentioned Dust issues, I figure he must live on Arrakis

Heh. Well that's why microfiber towels exist. Most vacuums don't pick up dust as well.

 

[dshreter]

For what it's worth (and I hope that's something), my experience with GIK has been uniformly positive. Their website has more free and well-written info on acoustic treatment than you can find anywhere else, they provided helpful lightweight consultation on my project to recommend products, and I've been very happy with the dozen 244s and bass traps I bought at a reasonable price. If OP is going to air his dirty laundry here I think it's only fair that others share their own experiences too.

 

[LukasRimbach]

Thank you everyone for the kind words, I truly believe we always go above and beyond to make anyone happy but in this scenario we where clearly blackmailed by someone with malicious intent and we just had to stand up against it, nearly everything said by the OP is either wrong or leaves out important details that have been communicated.

It might be also very important to mention that the OP bought from us several times over a period of time in 2021 and again in 2023 after which he suddenly claimed all the traps would smell and then we had several unsuccessful pick up attempts as explained. Since he makes it sound like there was a clear point of contact asking questions and then one purchase, which was not the case. Admittedly we did switch our production in 2021 and this was a fluid process. We weren't even aware that most or many manufacturers had been improving their products in regards of air quality and health until we looked into it in 2021, we simply had no reason to switch before.

The OP posted the email from my colleague, yes our Italian consultant at that time, that clearly states we use fabric that is dense enough, to then claim only a few posts below something completely different just to twist the narrative. That is exactly the MO we have seen along the way.

The title of this thread is chosen to be as damaging as possible to our reputation since this was part of the blackmail.

 

[kemmler3D]

@LukasRimbach For what it's worth as someone with no skin in the game and no specific intent to buy acoustic treatments in the future (I am crazy enough to make my own) I think GIK comes out looking more reasonable than the "plaintiff" in this exchange. I don't think this thread has successfully damaged GIK's reputation much / any in the eyes of anyone paying attention.

 

[Jimbob54]

OK, looks like any private dialog either didn't happen or wasn't conclusive so I'm closing the thread.

I would encourage anyone reading the thread to form their own conclusions based on the OPs claims and the responses from Lukas from the company.