Please don't buy acoustic panels from GIK Acoustics, they are rubbish!

[holdingpants01]

I would advise you to listen to him. He knows what he is talking about, and he does not mean you any malice at all.

Thanks, but I would advise you to read carefully (same applies to him) as I already said I don't have them anymore. Anyway, the whole room treatment including 12 real bass traps (though they're huge) tuned to specific frequencies and 10 broadband absorbers costed me less than 15 of GIK panels, so all is good and I'm not seeking acoustic advice. I am well aware I would need much more than 2 or 4 panels to even see if they're even working as intended, they don't say it on the website though.

 

[Raticosa]

These are velocity absorbers which means they only work if air goes through them. Using a non-porous fabric would turn them into more of a reflector and reduce their effectiveness.

Hi Amir, yes you are right, but a thin "non-woven fabric" by 30gr/m^2 (the white one you use to cover outside plants in winter) is practically transparent at low and mid frequencies, probably could be more reflective starting from some kHz.

All the DIY video on Youtube I saw before deciding to buy them (instead of make them by myself) recommend to use this thin layer under the outer fabric to keep particles inside the panel, so I don't think they all are wrong.

For me the health comes first, I prefer to reduce a bit their acoustical performance but stay safe with rockwool particles.
Cheers.

 

[Raticosa]

The interior of my many GIK panels is white.

I notice no unpleasant odors.

I don't vacuum the surface of the panels but do vacuum other surfaces in the room regularly.

Hmm.

So you allow your panels will be covered of dust? I can't imagine how many dust mites you will have on your panels... in my living room, where humidity is around 50% or 60%, if I don't vacuum them every week or so they will cover soon of dust, and the dust smell is for sure worst than the actual smell they do.

About your "Hmmm": happy to send you all the proofs you need, contact me privately (is there a way in this forum?) and I will share all the info and email you want.
Best.

 

[CapMan]

so I assume that neither the 244 panels have the non woven fabric inside, the white you see probably is the naked wood,

@amirm is spot on - these traps only work if air can pass through the fabric.

I have also had products from GIK in the UK with no issues, including tri traps

 

[Raticosa]

I’m placing my bets on the smell being a dead rodent

Hahahah, quite funny...They ALL smell the same, I don't think they ALL have dead rodent inside... and is not a bio smell, not a dead one.

 

[Raticosa]

It's likely off-gassing/degassing of the rockwool... is your room ventilated properly?

Although after 3 years I would expect it to have dissipated by now. The fact it hasn't makes me wonder regarding sufficient ventilation.


JSmith

I change air every day at least a couple of hours, when I arrive home from job, I have mosquito nets and railings in all the windows and I usually keep some windows open during the night too if outside is not too cold, so I assume is not a problem of scarce ventilation.
For sure venting the living room the smell is highly reduced, and is what I do daily... but when I go in holiday and I return home after a week or two you cannot imagine the smell the panels make.
Best.

 

[Sacha]

Sucks you had a bad experience but your thread title is a bit dramatic. Nothing but great experience with GIK here, the best bang-for-buck treatment if you can't DIY IMO, fantastic customer service that went way above and beyond, and they post actual measurements and testing of their products which many other vendors do not. Hope they get you sorted out anyway.

 

[Raticosa]

Sucks you had a bad experience but your thread title is a bit dramatic. Nothing but great experience with GIK here, the best bang-for-buck treatment if you can't DIY IMO, fantastic customer service that went way above and beyond, and they post actual measurements and testing of their products which many other vendors do not. Hope they get you sorted out anyway.

Yes, very bad experience.
My complaint is not about acoustic performance, they are fine in this and do their job (in conjunction with the Addictive Sound ones), that is to lower the RT60 of my big 90m^3 living room from the initial 750/800ms to the 350/400ms actual one above 80/100Hz.

So you don't matter that they advertise on their website to use an ecological rockwool but then they cheat clients using another one? I have the reply emails from GIK supporting this.

Same thing of Marantz with the PM6007 integrated amplifier where they still declare to use the AK4490 DAC while they use the ESS one because of shortage of AK DACs... is this not a client scam?

For me this is scam, you may think different.

 

[BrooklynNick]

if I don't vacuum them every week or so they will cover soon of dust, and the dust smell is for sure worst than the actual smell they do.

To me, that sounds very strange. Dust in your home is giving off a strong odor? I live in a different part of the world, but I've never heard of normal household dust having a strong odor. Perhaps something else is going on unrelated to the panels.

 

[Dialectic]

So you allow your panels will be covered of dust? I can't imagine how many dust mites you will have on your panels... in my living room, where humidity is around 50% or 60%, if I don't vacuum them every week or so they will cover soon of dust, and the dust smell is for sure worst than the actual smell they do.

About your "Hmmm": happy to send you all the proofs you need, contact me privately (is there a way in this forum?) and I will share all the info and email you want.
Best.

No, my panels are not covered with dust. I vacuum the tops of the panels, which have wood framing directly behind them and collect a little dust. I notice no dust on other surfaces of the panels. I vacuum the room regularly, and air is circulated through my listening room by the central air system, which has air filters.

My wife and kids are sensitive to air quality problems, and they don't complain about it in the basement audio room.

So, yes, I'm skeptical.

 

[ErVikingo]

I have ASC Tube Traps (USA Made), SevenAudio (made in Poland) diffusers, abfussers and GIK (made in the USA) large traps and abfussers. None of them have ever smelled.

I don't vacuum them, I use a lint rollers since i dont want to suck out internal fibers into the finishing fabric. The diffusers are cleaned with Swiffer and the plates with wood polish.

Your panels do not have a non-fabric membrane because of what they are meant to do acoustically and mechanically.

 

[LukasRimbach]

Hi everyone,

This post is to warn you not to buy acoustic panels from GIK Acoustics, and I'll explain why.

Three years ago, I decided to make an acoustic treatment in my living room (that I use for Hi-Fi listening and Home Theater) and, as I don’t want to make them by myself (even if I could, there is no technology inside an acoustic panel), I opted for panels from GIK Acoustics and Addictive Sound, two leading companies in this field.

From GIK Acoustics I purchased six “Tri-Trap” (triangular bass traps to be placed in the corners of the room) and four “244” panels for the side walls (for the first reflections), while I opted for six PREMIUM panels from Addictive Sound for the front wall (the one behind the main speakers).

A few days ago I had the idea of opening a GIK Acoustics bass trap (I wanted to change the color of the canvas to match the new color of the walls), I opened one of their triangular Tri-Trap, and I discovered two things that made me deeply disappointed:

a) Between the external canvas and the inner rock wool they do not put any layer of "non-woven fabric" as all other manufacturers do, with the result that, when I clean the panels with the vacuum cleaner, the small rock wool fibers are attracted towards the internal surface of the covering fabric and can, sooner or later, come out. Although rock wool fibers are said to be non-carcinogenic, they are still harmful to your health and can irritate the lungs if inhaled.

b) On their website they declare that they use rock wool with “ECOSE” technology (which is brownish in colour) while instead they use the more common “Isover” (which is yellow in color). This was also confirmed to me by one of their employees, Mr. Lukas Rimback (I have the emails) who replied me via email for explanations and confirmed that they no longer use ECOSE rock wool (which should be less harmful to health as it is free of formaldehyde and other rubbish and be made with recycled materials), but they still declare on their website to be used.

Furthermore, since the beginning, GIK Acoustics panels have always smelled a lot, even if I clean them regularly with the vacuum cleaner, I can't tell you if it's the glue they use or the wood, the fact is that if I don't air the living room regularly an acrid odor is created that gives you a headache and makes you sneeze. This problem (the smell) however is not present with Addictive Sound panels.

Needless to say, I am really very disappointed, I contacted them to complain to them and they replied that there is no European regulation on how to build acoustic panels and therefore they are right and that's fine, at my side I will never buy again panels and bass traps from GIK Acoustics, they invest a lot of money in advertising, on social media, and nothing for Customer satisfaction and the health of their Customers.

In conclusion: GIK Acoustics uses a standard rock wool different from the "ecological" one declared on their website and they do not put any protective cloth to retain the rock wool particles, I attach two photos below. feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Hi everyone,

Lukas here from GIK Acoustics, we usually do not do this but since this is such a clearly manipulative attempt here following an attempt of blackmail we thought we should reply.

So what happened here, the OP had bought some of our panels and years later claimed they would smell weirdly. We made five attempts at picking them up which where all unsuccessful so there was never a way for us to figure the situation out. I can assure you that this usually does not happen.

Then the OP contacted us last week with his claims asking for a full refund and to keep the panels, make of that whatever you want... He also started his first email with a threat that he would ruin our reputation in every online forum he is a member of, if we do not fully refund him.

Let's get into the other claims because the "smell" issue seemed fairly fabricated and could never be cleared:

1. We did switch our production within the EU to our polish factory because of Brexit and we use a product from Isover in the EU. This is simply due to the availability of Knauf Earthwool but we made sure we have found a product that fulfilled all the criteria that the Knauf product does. You can find information here https://www.isover-technical-insulation.com/stone-wool#ultimate

2. We are not claiming on any of our EU websites to use Knauf insulation, there where some products on our Italian page that had still mentioned the term "Ecose" within the product description which where simply overlooked.

3. The OP makes up a scenario here, where the Knauf Product would be a far superior and more expensive product, which is not the case, most if not all major manufacturers comply to the same standards now and we have made sure to meticulously find a replacement that tests the same and has all the same health standards upheld. I have explained this to the OP in several emails but it really wasn't of any importance as he was clearly only motivated monetarily.

4. We do not construct our panels with a layer of non woven fabric in between the insulation and the acoustic fabric because as pointed out here that would affect the performance. Instead we use fabrics to cover them that do contain the material within the trap. It's that simple and there is no standard of building acoustic panels, we never mentioned a European regulation, of course there is none. Mentioning one other company and some DIY videos on the internet obviously does not create a standard, I think that should be clear to everyone.

So in conclusion the OP wanted us to refund all of his money for products he bought in 2021 because they where not constructed as he thought they would be based on nothing we ever communicated and the fact that we used a different brand of rock wool that does perform the same and as proven complies to the same health standards.
I am sure you can all understand why we had to deny that request.

 

[LukasRimbach]

Yes, very bad experience.
My complaint is not about acoustic performance, they are fine in this and do their job (in conjunction with the Addictive Sound ones), that is to lower the RT60 of my big 90m^3 living room from the initial 750/800ms to the 350/400ms actual one above 80/100Hz.

So you don't matter that they advertise on their website to use an ecological rockwool but then they cheat clients using another one? I have the reply emails from GIK supporting this.

Same thing of Marantz with the PM6007 integrated amplifier where they still declare to use the AK4490 DAC while they use the ESS one because of shortage of AK DACs... is this not a client scam?

For me this is scam, you may think different.

I just want to add here, we do not use "another one", we use a completely comparable product that is also a ecological rock wool without formaldehydes etc., the only difference is in the colour and that is not an indicator for anything.

Replacing a internal part of your product with a different one that performs the same and has the same properties is not a scam and you won't find many people agreeing with that. Our intention is not to mislead anyone, we simply where in a transition period in 2021 where we had to exchange some components due to the new manufacturing site and we did our due diligence to make sure they are comparable.

All your claims are purely based on assumptions: You assume that rock wool particles would leave our panels which they don't, you assume every company builds panels with a layer of non woven fabric in between which is not correct and you assume that there would be no equal substitute for Knauf Earthwool which also isn't true. Also your assumption that rock wool would be dangerous to your health or lunges really isn't accurate either as many different studies confirm. Even if there where particles released this would not be a danger to your health.

You never asked if you could return the products or if you could receive a partial refund or anything sensible.
You approached us with ridiculous accusations and a very cheeky demand and a clear threat to badmouth us on the internet if we do not agree to your demands.
I don't think any other company would have reacted in any other way.

I will not reply any further but this had to be said again!

 

[threni]

Then the OP contacted us last week with his claims asking for a full refund and to keep the panels, make of that whatever you want...

LOL! Amusing if true. (Maybe the smell referred to is the OP's BS).

 

[Raticosa]

Hi everyone,

Lukas here from GIK Acoustics, we usually do not do this but since this is such a clearly manipulative attempt here following an attempt of blackmail we thought we should reply.

So what happened here, the OP had bought some of our panels and years later claimed they would smell weirdly. We made five attempts at picking them up which where all unsuccessful so there was never a way for us to figure the situation out. I can assure you that this usually does not happen.

Then the OP contacted us last week with his claims asking for a full refund and to keep the panels, make of that whatever you want... He also started his first email with a threat that he would ruin our reputation in every online forum he is a member of, if we do not fully refund him.

Let's get into the other claims because the "smell" issue seemed fairly fabricated and could never be cleared:

1. We did switch our production within the EU to our polish factory because of Brexit and we use a product from Isover in the EU. This is simply due to the availability of Knauf Earthwool but we made sure we have found a product that fulfilled all the criteria that the Knauf product does. You can find information here https://www.isover-technical-insulation.com/stone-wool#ultimate

2. We are not claiming on any of our EU websites to use Knauf insulation, there where some products on our Italian page that had still mentioned the term "Ecose" within the product description which where simply overlooked.

3. The OP makes up a scenario here, where the Knauf Product would be a far superior and more expensive product, which is not the case, most if not all major manufacturers comply to the same standards now and we have made sure to meticulously find a replacement that tests the same and has all the same health standards upheld. I have explained this to the OP in several emails but it really wasn't of any importance as he was clearly only motivated monetarily.

4. We do not construct our panels with a layer of non woven fabric in between the insulation and the acoustic fabric because as pointed out here that would affect the performance. Instead we use fabrics to cover them that do contain the material within the trap. It's that simple and there is no standard of building acoustic panels, we never mentioned a European regulation, of course there is none. Mentioning one other company and some DIY videos on the internet obviously does not create a standard, I think that should be clear to everyone.

So in conclusion the OP wanted us to refund all of his money for products he bought in 2021 because they where not constructed as he thought they would be based on nothing we ever communicated and the fact that we used a different brand of rock wool that does perform the same and as proven complies to the same health standards.
I am sure you can all understand why we had to deny that request.

Morning Lukas,

in order:

a) about the smell: I gave my smellish Tri-Trap to the courier MBE last year, as agreed (I have the emails), your courier missed the first pickup but then picked it up at second attempt a couple of days after, so you should check with your employees in Poland dept. where the TriTrap has gone, I made my part, and never had a reply by GIK like "Ehi, where the Tri-Trap is?" so this means it has picked up. I would have been happy to be contacted from GIK saying "We have understood the problem and so on" but this never happened.
If you want to send one of your Italian colleagues in person at my home in Bologna I will be happy to verify the problem with them, we can also open the panels together or I can give one of them to your colleagues in order to evaluate the reason, believe me I am more sorry than you about this problem because I don't want to give up on acoustic treatment of my living room but everyday I have to tolerate that annoying smell..

b) the only reason why I decided to buy yours panel instead of make them by myself was the fact you declared to use "ECOSE" rockwool (that is safest for health), instead you use the more common Isover that I can find at LeroyMerlin or similar stores. If you still declare using "ECOSE" rockwool on your Italian website (and I live in Italy so I visited the Italian website at that time, 3 years ago, and still now) is your fault, not mine. Moreover, I bought my first panels in July 2021, so when you switched to Isover? And why you didn't declare it? Why you use two different standards for UK market and European one? The price is the same but quality isn't... As I write in my opinion this is a scam, sorry.

c) Yes, I asked for a refund because I bought something different from what you declared at that time, so in my opinion the contract is void, if you want your panel back no problem because I have no intention to keep them with that kind of rockwool inside without any additional protection. Probably I will sell them or open them and put a layer of "non woven fabric" (even if it slightly lower the performance, but I have my doubts that a thin layer of 30gr/m^2 fabric can decrease the performance in lower-mid frequency range). I spent approximately 1500 Euro for the panels and TriTraps, Euro more Euro less, and you don't want to refund me after you declared to use something different from what you declare on your websites, this means your reputation worth less than 1500Euro, let people decide.

d) Clients and market will decide if the behavior of GIK Acoustics is professional or not, at my side I will be happy to provide all the information and material proofs I have to anyone will need them, if there is a way please contact me privately and I will be happy to help anyone understanding more about this issue.

Best

 

[Raticosa]

LOL! Amusing if true. (Maybe the smell referred to is the OP's B

LOL! Amusing if true. (Maybe the smell referred to is the OP's BS).

Yes is true, if you buy something different from what they declare is correct to have a refund, if you like to be cheated is your taste.
Best.

 

[LukasRimbach]

LOL! Amusing if true. (Maybe the smell referred to is the OP's BS).

Morning Lukas,

in order:

a) about the smell: I gave my smellish Tri-Trap to the courier MBE last year, as agreed (I have the emails), your courier missed the first pickup but then picked it up at second attempt a couple of days after, so you should check with your employees in Poland dept. where the TriTrap has gone, I made my part, and never had a reply by GIK like "Ehi, where the Tri-Trap is?" so this means it has picked up. I would have been happy to be contacted from GIK saying "We have understood the problem and so on" but this never happened.
If you want to send one of your Italian colleagues in person at my home in Bologna I will be happy to verify the problem with them, we can also open the panels together or I can give one of them to your colleagues in order to evaluate the reason, believe me I am more sorry than you about this problem because I don't want to give up on acoustic treatment of my living room but everyday I have to tolerate that annoying smell..

b) the only reason why I decided to buy yours panel instead of make them by myself was the fact you declared to use "ECOSE" rockwool (that is safest for health), instead you use the more common Isover that I can find at LeroyMerlin or similar stores. If you still declare using "ECOSE" rockwool on your Italian website (and I live in Italy so I visited the Italian website at that time, 3 years ago, and still now) is your fault, not mine. Moreover, I bought my first panels in July 2021, so when you switched to Isover? And why you didn't declare it? Why you use two different standards for UK market and European one? The price is the same but quality isn't... As I write in my opinion this is a scam, sorry.

c) Yes, I asked for a refund because I bought something different from what you declared at that time, so in my opinion the contract is void, if you want your panel back no problem because I have no intention to keep them with that kind of rockwool inside without any additional protection. Probably I will sell them or open them and put a layer of "non woven fabric" (even if it slightly lower the performance, but I have my doubts that a thin layer of 30gr/m^2 fabric can decrease the performance in lower-mid frequency range). I spent approximately 1500 Euro for the panels and TriTraps, Euro more Euro less, and you don't want to refund me after you declared to use something different from what you declare on your websites, this means your reputation worth less than 1500Euro, let people decide.

d) Clients and market will decide if the behavior of GIK Acoustics is professional or not, at my side I will be happy to provide all the information and material proofs I have to anyone will need them, if there is a way please contact me privately and I will be happy to help anyone understanding more about this issue.

Best

a) that is simply not true and you know that, we never received any of your traps. No one would bring this up two years after they received a product, yet we still wanted to look into this and you failed to make it possible.

b) You are still making up facts and this is the problem here, ECOSE Rock wool is just as safe and ecological as the one we use in Europe, you are desperately looking for an argument why something is wrong with the panels but nothing is wrong with them. Knauf is just as easily found in the UK and doesn't cost more than Isover, you don't really seem to understand the market for building materials, which is fine but then you just make up things. We do not have two different standards, we use two different internal absorption materials that perform the same acoustically AND comply to all the same ecological and health standards. You can repeat your wrong claim over and over and it will not change anything. It is still a wrong claim. No one without an agenda would care about this as we can clearly prove that the material is just as ecological and safe. Just because you had a wrong idea about this whole topic of material science and bought the panels based upon that, doesn't change the fact that you received a product that complies to all the mentioned standards and the brand name of the material is highly irrelevant.

c) No, see above, the contract is not void because we replaced the absorption material with one that complies to the same standards, having to discuss this really is silly.

You have a lot of doubts and ideas and opinions but none of them are based on anything but your own imagination. This has nothing to do with our reputation we just don't let customers blackmail us after three years of owning a product into fully refunding them and keeping the product.

d) I don't know if you haven't read this thread but people have doubts about your story and they are right to do so. While some of the things you say are correct, the implications and claims you take away from those facts are wrong and you don't care about the actual facts which I undermined with data. Your whole approach has been dishonest and to be honest extremely shady and it shows from your attempt to now lure people into a private conversation so you could lie to them without us having a chance to correct you.

You are being dishonest, you leave out important information, you twist the narrative and you ignore the information you are given, all because we didn't give into your attempt to blackmail us. That is what happened here and you know it and people can tell.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Morning Lukas,

in order:

a) about the smell: I gave my smellish Tri-Trap to the courier MBE last year, as agreed (I have the emails), your courier missed the first pickup but then picked it up at second attempt a couple of days after, so you should check with your employees in Poland dept. where the TriTrap has gone, I made my part, and never had a reply by GIK like "Ehi, where the Tri-Trap is?" so this means it has picked up. I would have been happy to be contacted from GIK saying "We have understood the problem and so on" but this never happened.
If you want to send one of your Italian colleagues in person at my home in Bologna I will be happy to verify the problem with them, we can also open the panels together or I can give one of them to your colleagues in order to evaluate the reason, believe me I am more sorry than you about this problem because I don't want to give up on acoustic treatment of my living room but everyday I have to tolerate that annoying smell..

b) the only reason why I decided to buy yours panel instead of make them by myself was the fact you declared to use "ECOSE" rockwool (that is safest for health), instead you use the more common Isover that I can find at LeroyMerlin or similar stores. If you still declare using "ECOSE" rockwool on your Italian website (and I live in Italy so I visited the Italian website at that time, 3 years ago, and still now) is your fault, not mine. Moreover, I bought my first panels in July 2021, so when you switched to Isover? And why you didn't declare it? Why you use two different standards for UK market and European one? The price is the same but quality isn't... As I write in my opinion this is a scam, sorry.

c) Yes, I asked for a refund because I bought something different from what you declared at that time, so in my opinion the contract is void, if you want your panel back no problem because I have no intention to keep them with that kind of rockwool inside without any additional protection. Probably I will sell them or open them and put a layer of "non woven fabric" (even if it slightly lower the performance, but I have my doubts that a thin layer of 30gr/m^2 fabric can decrease the performance in lower-mid frequency range). I spent approximately 1500 Euro for the panels and TriTraps, Euro more Euro less, and you don't want to refund me after you declared to use something different from what you declare on your websites, this means your reputation worth less than 1500Euro, let people decide.

d) Clients and market will decide if the behavior of GIK Acoustics is professional or not, at my side I will be happy to provide all the information and material proofs I have to anyone will need them, if there is a way please contact me privately and I will be happy to help anyone understanding more about this issue.

Best

GIK has a 30 day return policy- at least they do here in the United States. If not satisfied, why didn’t you return them when you could still get a refund?
Reality is - anything done outside of that time frame is purely optional. Whining about it on a “scientific” forum won’t accomplish much. I am quite surprised no one here has asked for proof of any type!

 

[Sokel]

GIK has a 30 day return policy- at least they do here in the United States. If not satisfied, why didn’t you return them when you could still get a refund?
Reality is - anything done outside of that time frame is purely optional. Whining about it on a “scientific” forum won’t accomplish much. I am quite surprised no one here has asked for proof of any type!

Yep.
Courier details of the returned TriTrap or it didn't happen!

 

[LukasRimbach]

GIK has a 30 day return policy- at least they do here in the United States. If not satisfied, why didn’t you return them when you could still get a refund?
Reality is - anything done outside of that time frame is purely optional. Whining about it on a “scientific” forum won’t accomplish much. I am quite surprised no one here has asked for proof of any type!

We do here as well and of course if something is wrong with the panels it wouldn't matter if it is 2 months either, as said we even tried to rectify the smell situation when contacted years later.