Please advise on a DAC+amp combo, and a headphone with a warm, relaxed sound

[Veri]

Tubes...

I disagree with the tubes = warm sounding statement, if anything it seems to stem from a higher output impedance typical of these amps.

 

[A800]

I disagree with the tubes = warm sounding statement, if anything it seems to stem from a higher output impedance typical of these amps.

Of course it depends on the circuit also.

 

[solderdude]

Of course it depends on the circuit also.

And the mindset of the owner ...

 

[Martin]

Warm, relaxing and fun? Try a Project Polaris headphone amplifier. It's definitely fun to play with all the available adjustments. I love mine.

Martin

 

[A800]

And the mindset of the owner ...

A mindset can't change the sound of a particular circuit or can it?

 

[solderdude]

Nope, but it can change the perception.
I have personal proof of this in the form of device wit glowing tubes (only heaters connected) on the outside and a simple poor mans class-AB design on the inside.

When a tube amp sounds 'warm' and can be blind AB'ed with confidence it either has a quite high output resistance or an audible amount of distortion added or a combination.

When that is done on purpose it can still be competently designed (using good parts and with a 'character' in mind) but it isn't an objectively competent design that simply amplifies the signal without changing it in any other way but increasing output power with a low output resistance.

The differences amps can make (those that change the sound slightly on purpose) are much smaller than any speaker/headphone do.
So using a tube amp in the hope that a treble peak in a headphone will change or bass improves is idle hope.

 

[MRC01]

... Better to buy 'transparent' devices and EQ to your liking. ...

This ^^^ for sure. Buy once, use forever and you can change the presentation to suit your tastes as they evolve over time, or for different music.

 

[A800]

Nope, but it can change the perception.
I have personal proof of this in the form of device wit glowing tubes (only heaters connected) on the outside and a simple poor mans class-AB design on the inside.

When a tube amp sounds 'warm' and can be blind AB'ed with confidence it either has a quite high output resistance or an audible amount of distortion added or a combination.

When that is done on purpose it can still be competently designed (using good parts and with a 'character' in mind) but it isn't an objectively competent design that simply amplifies the signal without changing it in any other way but increasing output power with a low output resistance.

The differences amps can make (those that change the sound slightly on purpose) are much smaller than any speaker/headphone do.
So using a tube amp in the hope that a treble peak in a headphone will change or bass improves is idle hope.

Using an appropriate circuit you can make the tube(s) add quite an amount of even order harmonics which will make the sound "warmer".
It has nothing to do with a "treble peak" but the bass will also benefit from the harmonics.
Of course this has nothing to with true-to-source reproduction but this also wasn't what the OP had in mind.

 

[MRC01]

Tubes do have more distortion than solid state, but well engineered tube amps driving appropriate loads don't have high enough distortion to become audible. At least that was my experience owning the Wheatfield HA-2, a high quality SET OTL tube headphone amp. But this tube amp did sound warmer than a solid state amp with most headphones. Most likely due to its high output impedance combined with most headphones having peak impedance in the bass, which acts as a tone control. You can mimic that with EQ.

Even the output impedance effect isn't unique to tube amps. My current solid state headphone amp has 2 headphone outputs each with different output impedances. One is zero ohms, the other 120 ohms. With dynamic headphones like the Sennheiser HD-580 you can quick switch back & forth and hear the difference in tonality (warmer sound from higher output impedance). If you quick switch planar headphones, the 120 ohm output doesn't change the tonality, it just gets quieter. That's because planars have flat impedance vs. frequency.

Incidentally, I've read that decades ago the 120 ohm output impedance for headphones was considered 'standard' and some headphones were designed for this. They sound too bright on modern gear, relying on the amp's high output impedance to tame the treble.

All else equal, if you can get the same euphonic coloration by (A) purchasing gear that does it inherently, or (B) purchasing transparent gear and applying the euphonics through EQ, it's obvious that (B) is the better choice. The real question then becomes: can one truly reproduce that "tubuliciuos" sound by applying EQ or other DSP with transparent solid state equipment?

 

[Wes]

warm is pretty easy - tubes

fun & relaxed are more difficult to figure out what you mean - the latter could translate to reduced HF response

 

[Wes]

Molasses, I suggest you get lower cost, accurate electronics; then spend the bulk of your $$ on quality transducers - headphones.

You can add some tubey goodness later if you want to trade the headphone amp in for one that uses tubes.

I think that will give you what you want.

Full disclosure: I use a nice tube pre-amp also.

 

[A800]

Molasses, I suggest you get lower cost, accurate electronics; then spend the bulk of your $$ on quality transducers - headphones.

You can add some tubey goodness later if you want to trade the headphone amp in for one that uses tubes.

I think that will give you what you want.

Full disclosure: I use a nice tube pre-amp also.

I use tube-pres also, wherever and whenever I can.
And I know why.

 

[magicscreen]

All else equal, if you can get the same euphonic coloration

'Euphonic' coloration is a subjective thing. Euphonic for who? It depends.
I was looking a tubey headphone amp recently and to my biggest surprise I have not found any.
There is no one with big letters: this is a real tubey amp!
But you can find a lots, for example Schiit Valhalla2, which is NOT a syrupy, tubey amp.

 

[Molasses]

Hey guys,

Sorry, I phrased the title very poorly. I meant I want a transparent DAC and amp combo (like the Soncoz and Archel 2), and a headphone that fitted that warm, relaxed sound profile.

And advise on whether a pairing of the Topping D10 + JDS Atom would sound as good as the more expensive pairing of the Soncoz LA-QXD1 +
Geshelli Archel 2.5 Pro

Thanks for your time

 

[solderdude]

They will be indistinguishable when it comes to sound.

It would depend on looks, price and functionality. Balanced audio does NOT sound any better. In some cases you may lower groundloop issues.
As the Geshelli uses a DCDC converter inside chances are that combo is less prone to groundloop issues.
D10 is often mentioned in cases where there are groundloop issues.
These can occur when a DAC is connected to a computer and separate mains fed headphone amp.

The Geshelli is probably the 'safer' bet in such a case.

 

[Molasses]

Thanks!

 

[M00ndancer]

It would depend on looks, price and functionality. Balanced audio does NOT sound any better. In some cases you may lower groundloop issues.
As the Geshelli uses a DCDC converter inside chances are that combo is less prone to groundloop issues.
D10 is often mentioned in cases where there are groundloop issues.
These can occur when a DAC is connected to a computer and separate mains fed headphone amp.

Absolutely true, as I can attest.
I have crap mains in my house. No three prong with separate earth except kitchen and wet areas.
So when I upgraded to powered speakers and sub I had to use balanced from the mixer to the speakers, couldn't use the headphone amp I wanted.
(all this is stuff I have lying at home)
I also had to get a Behringer HD400 to kill the ground loop from my synth when using it as a sound card in my DAW.
Happy camper now!
See equipment in signature.

 

[magicscreen]

Hey guys,

Sorry, I phrased the title very poorly. I meant I want a transparent DAC and amp combo (like the Soncoz and Archel 2), and a headphone that fitted that warm, relaxed sound profile.

And advise on whether a pairing of the Topping D10 + JDS Atom would sound as good as the more expensive pairing of the Soncoz LA-QXD1 +
Geshelli Archel 2.5 Pro

Thanks for your time

Using the JDS Atom as amp you won't get warm, relaxed profile with the HD6XX.

 

[Veri]

Using the JDS Atom as amp you won't get warm, relaxed profile with the HD6XX.

Pray tell us why?

 

[VMAT4]

Pray tell us why?

I use the HD 6XX. Is it known for a warm relaxed profile? Not that I should care too much. It's comfortable and sounds good enough.