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Playing PCM to DSD Native with foobar2000

No, never used any filter before, because DSD256 was stable. Just recently started with DSD512, but that was unstable, which led me to try the filter.

Well that's good, you are lucky. The PC doesn't generate that much noise overall.

Filter is not connected to either case. It's just the existing USB cable (4 to 6 ft long) wound, as many turns as possible, around the toroid with the ends short as possible to connect DAC and USB jack of PC. This kills any PC noise in the cable, preventing it from getting into the DAC. Toroid is very close to the DAC (about 4 inches), and the PC end is about 1 foot long (DAC sits on top of the PC). Note - my DAC has it's own AC power, I don't take DC from the PC for power, don't know if that makes a difference.

Ok now I get it, I'll try with the HS-02 and take some measurements. Why not.

What images are you playing (DSD images ?).

No, I mean media; cover, booklets, etc. The x32 version was a disaster, the x64 could handle it much better.
Now the x64 version never crashes, not sure about the x32 since I don't use it since ages.

I am sticking with 32 bit, because it's working so don't see a need to change and create more hassles.
Also, I use a 32bit component that I don't want to give up - foo_musical spectrum.

If you don't have a specific need, I agree.
Stick with your current version.
x32 is also less resources demanding.
All plugins I use are either compiled with the x64 runtime or are x64 so I don't have legacy to mind.

I've had mixed results with him on Sourceforge - one time he responded quickly, another he totally ignored my question. Maybe next time I'll try emailing him.

Just ping him again :)
It's not really state of the art this Sourceforge system.

I haven't see anything (in Sourceforge) that refers to 64 bit, these components were developed for 32bit (far as I know, correct me if wrong), that could explain some of your issues.

It doesn't really matter if they are x64 or not, they just need to be compiled with the latest runtime.
The DSD Processor is probably x32 while ASIO+DSD is x64.
 
Duhhh bit stream, cut, glue up and apply the filter. No need for more than DSD128 really. Only plugin (implementation) is old and SMP4 only.
 
For the content maybe but as output mode is usually a notch better DSD256 and up.



You can set the SDM type in the DSD Transcoder plugin, these are the orders: A - 4, B - 5, C - 3, D - 5, E - 5.
For what you could call transparent not sawing wood around you while playing. You apply the pin filter to just over the original content forming a wormhole to separate rest of the mud and cut it off. That's how it basically works. It's CPU cycle expensive.
 
@LGD_

Thanks for reminding me about ferrite beads :)
Have still to find a big ring to attempt looping the DAC cables; I don't expect much as they already have two ferrite beads but you never know.

I'm re-organizing the bookshelf where the Amp and DAC are so I just moved them.
Thankfully, the DAC cables are long enough but I had to replace the cables of the Scarlett with cheaper ones and the measurements of course suffered a big setback.
I have ordered a kit of ferrite beads and started putting them here and there.
Decided to track the changes while applying them on the audio chain cables to see how and when it was improving.

This was the starting situation:

2025-03-08 12_21_51-Multitone Analyzer v1.2.9 (_ManniX-1K_XLR).png


Not terrible but the LF is pretty dirty, dominated by the 50Hz AC pollution and its harmonics, the base of the 1K since is dirty as well and the harmonics are higher than the usual. The SFDR is suffering quite a lot, should be above 120dB.
I already know the probable cause of the AC pollution but I will keep it to track the effect of the ferrite beads.

I will start with USB cables connecting the Scarlett; there are now 2 cheap cables with the HS01 in the middle.

This is adding one bead to the cable from the HS01 to the Scarlett near the HS01, not much different just 1dB in SFDR gained:
ferrite_1.png


This is adding one bead to the cable from the PC to the HS01 near the HS01, much better the SFDR reaches 121.5dB, the LF is much more cleaner and the AC pollution and harmonics are greatly reduced:

ferrite_2.png


This is adding one bead to the cable from the HS01 to the Scarlett near the Scarlett, SFDR jumps to 122,9dB and the LF is much more clean:

1741449397222.png


This is adding one bead to the cable from the PC to the HS01 near the PC, SFDR goes up to 124dB and there's a lower pollution at 50/100Hz:

1741449428473.png


This is with the USB power supply connected to the HS01, super high pollution goes back to the Scarlett:

ferrite_4_hs01.png


Since a while ago it wasn't like that, I assume this is a signal that my replacement HS01 will die sooner or later.
The measurements dropped like 30dB at some point with the HS01 powered, I decided to leave it unpowered and never plug it again.

Added also the beads to the USB cable providing power to the HS02 and measured it with and without, no change at all.
I decided to leave the HS02 unplugged from external power.

Added also a couple of beads on the PSU cable of the ZD3, near the PSU and the ZD3:
1741450389167.png


Very small improvement but still some bits.

Basically I have only the AC pollution at 50/100Hz left.

The ZD3 is currently sitting on top of the Yamaha A-S700 Amp together with the Scarlett which is connected to the ZD3 with a Mogami XLR cable with Neutrik Gold connectors.
Quite a decent cable so I wondered if despite the quality it was picking the noise from the Yamaha PSU.

I added a bead to the cable near the Scarlett and the 100Hz went away:
1741451389168.png


Added another near the ZD3 and the pollution went away:
1741451440207.png


But this was one lucky measurement, during further repetitions the pollution came back out quite often but greatly attenuated.

Finally I switched off the Amp and got a final measurement, still with a light bump at 50Hz (guess cause the audio cables at some point cross the AC cables):
1741451540361.png


Definitely worth it to spend some time and money to install the ferrite beads!

Made as well some final comparisons but at 128K FFT since MTA DSD Gen dies generating DSD256 at 256K.
Also measured at DSD512 but could do it only at 64K FFT.

Quite a good measurement after doing a bit of cleaning at PCM 96kHz, nice 125.5dB SFDR:
1741453578295.png


Even better at DSD128 with 127dB SFDR:
1741453619889.png


At DSD256 it's slightly worse overall, not sure why it wasn't like that a while ago, but the cleanest HF overall:
1741453789583.png


At DSD512, same as the Topping D50s, it starts falling down in almost all the metrics but still the HF is very clean:

1741453892910.png
 
Mannix:
You're welcome! Glad to see those measurements to quantify the improvements.
I'm thinking of trying that Multitone Analyzer to do some checks on my system when I have time also.

You really should also try a toroid - I was able to get maybe 8 - 10 turns of the USB cable around mine, remember that multiplies the suppression a lot.
I know you're not in the US, so not posting a direct link, but you should do an Amazon search for :
FT-240-43 FT240-43 Ferrite Toroid Core 43 Material
I'd be interested to see how that measures.
Thanks for posting these.
 
@LGD_
You really have to get into the MTA's rabbit hole, possibly right away with the Cosmos unless you need to measure unbalanced sources as well.
It's almost as much fun as listening to music, sometimes beats it :)

Thanks for the reference, very good inner diameter.
Ordered a couple from a German reseller, will take quite some time to arrive, almost 10 days.
Not sure how many turns I can make with my cables, they are very stiff and thick:


I don't think they can fit my normal setup, I'd have to purchase longer cables.
But I will test for sure and check the results, you never know!
 
@LGD_

Got the two ferrite rings today.
Moved out the DAC and took a measurement as a reference.

Lot of noise at 50/100/200 Hz (thanks @pkane) , more than I was expecting:
1741784685578.png


Got the first ring on the DAC cable between the HS02 and the DAC.
Could only make a couple of turns.

Improved quite a lot, almost 10dB:
1741784792230.png


The 2nd ferrite ring went on cable between the HS01 and the Scarlett.
Since it's much thinner I could make 4 turns:
1741784880918.png


Completely clean, best measurement so far with the ZD3.
 
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@LGD_

Got the two ferrite rings today.
Moved out the DAC and took a measurement as a reference.

Lot of noise at 50/100/200 Hz (thanks @pkane) , more than I was expecting:
View attachment 435463

Got the first ring on the DAC cable between the HS02 and the DAC.
Could only make a couple of turns.

Improved quite a lot, almost 10dB:
View attachment 435464

The 2nd ferrite ring went on cable between the HS01 and the Scarlett.
Since it's much thinner I could make 4 turns:
View attachment 435465

Completely clean, best measurement so far with the ZD3.
Very nice, now you are a believer !
I'm a former Broadcast engineer, and we used toroids for suppression everywhere.
Our transmitters were on Channel 2 (54-60Mhz), and later Channel 12 (204 - 210Mhz), and the RF from them would get into everything. Toroids were a lifesaver.

Thanks for sharing this.
 
I suspect that you meant Hz, not MHz
Indeed, it was a test... :facepalm:
Thanks a lot.

Well I made some compromises and moved back everything with the two big rings on the Scarlett and DAC cables.
Results are even better.
You were right @LGD_ it helps with DSD256 and DSD512.
Helps as well with PCM 96 kHz but not at 768 kHz.
I got some measurements to compare with the old ones.

DSD256
1741788546759.png

1741789078064.png


DSD512
1741789118130.png

1741789134475.png


PCM96
1741789100027.png

1741790047999.png


(Fixed the PCM96 image)

Definitely a worthwhile and cheap upgrade for any cable.
 
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I'm a former Broadcast engineer, and we used toroids for suppression everywhere.

I'm more digital but yes I remember there were toroids everywhere when I was young :)

Decided it was worth a reference measurement with the notebook in battery mode.
Not really much difference, most of the times even worse by a small margin.
Seems the filtering is good enough that the PC is not more noisy than the notebook in DC mode.

PCM96

1k_pcm96.png


PCM384

1k_pcm384.png


PCM768

1k_pcm768.png



DSD128

1k_dsd128.png


DSD256

1k_dsd256.png


DSD512

1k_dsd512.png
 
Had a moment to do some quick listening testing yesterday.
All these changes definitely had a pleasant positive impact on sound quality.

Found the reason why I kept preferring transcoding to DSD256.
The ASIO+DSD driver - at least on my ZD3 - is massively better than the ASIO driver.
It's not really the DSD mode but the driver.

I kept using the "official" ASIO driver to test PCM, cause it's just more comfortable to switch from one to another.

But ASIO+DSD gradually increased the PCM quality while ASIO didn't (I didn't even know that it was bad).
I went back to the earlier versions and indeed ASIO+DSD in the v0.2.0 was working as bad as ASIO in PCM and much better in DSD.
In the v0.3.1 there was an improvement but still not as good as DSD.
The current v0.4.5 works so well in PCM that it's clearly better without any conversion.

The ASIO output sounds a bit like the Wasapi shared; grinded through a mixer.
Maybe I have something wrong at software level, not sure.
 
People seriously into this should try a DSD direct DAC that lets you actually bypass the SDM of the DAC and use HQplayer .. way more options available that way to really „improve“ the sound.

I think that foobar stuff was not really updated in the last 15 years in a meaningful way.
 
People seriously into this should try a DSD direct DAC that lets you actually bypass the SDM of the DAC and use HQplayer .. way more options available that way to really „improve“ the sound.

I think that foobar stuff was not really updated in the last 15 years in a meaningful way.
Respectfully disagree....

I've been using the "foobar stuff" for several years - upconverting all PCM (FLACs) to DSD 256 native in foobar and sending it to the DSD direct input of my DAC (SMSL D6).
And foobar and it's DSD components are frequently being updated.

HQ Player does look like a significant improvement (I'm currently playing with the trial version),
but there's a lot to wrap your head around there , it's a steep learning curve .
 
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