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Plasma speakers are back... as room treatment?

kemmler3D

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Long story short they have put together an ANC setup where a rectangular plasma transducer is used to cancel incident sound. It looks like it works pretty well, and they don't even need a helium tank, apparently:


1685644476090.png


Of course I am sure it suffers from the same problems as any other plasma... the big one being ozone production, so I don't see this developing into a means of treating our whole rooms at home. There is also the question of having 8KV wires all over the place. But as a way of preventing noise from moving through air ducts or something, or for outdoor applications, it's quite interesting. And I suppose there is no reason this can't be used in a sealed chamber, so maybe it COULD be used for active room treatments if we're willing to deal with whatever effects the sealing membrane has?

Since it's active, the response can be tuned arbitrarily, so in theory if you had a room totally covered in these things, you could go from perfect listening space to anechoic chamber with the flip of a switch. Fun to think about, although I don't know if "a room fully covered in plasma chambers" is going to fit my budget... ever.

PS: I realize this experiment was nowhere near room-scale. But if you have a few square inches of something, the only obstacle to scaling it to cover a whole room is money and a sufficiently crazy mindset. ;)
 
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GXAlan

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DonH56

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An ozone generator in a SCIF strikes me as a bad idea... Glad I am no longer involved with either one. :)
 

fpitas

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You could make an intensely poisonous Cone of Silence :D
 
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kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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I wonder if you could seal these things in thin membranes to avoid the ozone getting out? It would hurt high frequency performance, but that's the easiest to absorb with traditional methods anyway. If we can get some active bass absorbers that absorb >95% at 20hz, we're really cooking with (ionized) gas compared to existing stuff.
 

Keith_W

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I wonder if you could seal these things in thin membranes to avoid the ozone getting out? It would hurt high frequency performance, but that's the easiest to absorb with traditional methods anyway. If we can get some active bass absorbers that absorb >95% at 20hz, we're really cooking with (ionized) gas compared to existing stuff.

Isn't ozone corrosive to metals? If you trap it in an enclosure with metal, it may not be a good idea?

I would also be concerned with how much electricity these things consume.
 
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kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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Isn't ozone corrosive to metals? If you trap it in an enclosure with metal, it may not be a good idea?

I would also be concerned with how much electricity these things consume.
What am I, a chemist? But yeah, good point. Looks like there is a lot of variability in what stands up to ozone, or doesn't.


interestingly enough, according to this, plain old silicone is robust against ozone? And I could imagine a suitable membrane being made of silicone. So maybe you just get a whole bunch of these things in little rubber sleeves.

As for the power use... yeah it's probably high if you need to maintain 8KV, but perhaps it's very efficient somehow? Otherwise we're talking budget-breaking space heaters... so they should be extremely popular with the tubes and Class-A audiophool crowd... :D
 

DonH56

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The main issue is electrode corrosion. I know - because I have to replace my electrodes every 5 years or thereabouts.
Who are you, Frankenstein? :)
iu
 
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kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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The main issue is electrode corrosion. I know - because I have to replace my electrodes every 5 years or thereabouts.
Well that's easy, just use silicone electrodes.

But since we're already talking crazy, would there be a big impedance mismatch with the air if these imagined silicone capsules were actually just full of nitrogen/argon instead of air? That way, no ozone problems.
 

Andysu

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Who are you, Frankenstein? :)
that's the creature , frankenstein was the creator actually few miles away down at bournemouth for frankenstein fans , mary shelley , its upmarket high end restaurant bar

mary-shelley.jpg
 

htnut3

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It's an odd one this, there's no doubt some fair research and testing here but the latest paper on it goes over the top. For starters "plasmacoustic" isn't a word, reads more like marketing than an academic paper. "Deep subwavelength" means thin. The "metalayer" is 2 at most, the corona on the wires isn't the primary sound generator if at all - this is an ionic speaker where the ions (and electrons) streaming through the air hit air molecules, usually known as corona wind (pretty old established tech from the 50's - see Dr. Tombs). In their previous papers they describe it as an ion loudspeaker and the description is far less flowery. They have some really strange measurements in the paper - a frequency response only from 20Hz to 2kHz (yes 2 not 20) and the strange graph uses absorption coefficient with no mention of SPL or decibels anywhere. I'm sure it works in some fashion but am skeptical about the wider application beyond the end of a duct, with the ozone of course. It is however with a patent now (which never mentions the buzz words and is a more reasonable read all round, even for a patent) and all of it has been sold to a startup IP selling company.
 
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kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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the strange graph uses absorption coefficient with no mention of SPL or decibels anywhere.
IME this is pretty common in scientific papers on acoustic absorption, I guess the assumption is that the coefficient is constant with SPL?

am skeptical about the wider application beyond the end of a duct, with the ozone of course.
Same, but I guess that's not without its uses.
 
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