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Planning upgrade from MiniDSP DDRC-24 to Flex even SHD

andy00842003

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Hello everyone, I'm new for this lovely community!There are few desk setup speakers question to ask you!

My current setup is Mac> DDRC24> pair of Genelec 8010A, and I am planning to upgrade to flex or even SHD.

1.Does anyone own those? Please tell me your experience!
2.How's big different between from DDRC-24 to Flex even SHD?
3.Is it a necessary the factor flex's Balanced and unbalanced in/output?

Thank you all!
 

deercreekaudio

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Here is a comparison guide that may help you out.

miniDSP Dirac Live 2x4 Comparison Guide
DDRC-24Flex RCAFlex BalancedSHD
Bluetooth LDAC High DefinitionXX
Built in Streamer VolumioX
Balanced analog I/OX*X**
RCA Single ended analog I/OXXX
TOSLINK digital inputXXXX
USB digital inputXXXX
SPDIF digital InputXXX
AES-EBU digital inputsX
SPDIF digital outputs******X
TOSLINK digital outputs******
Front panel display and control knobXXX
Remote selectable inputs, volume & tone modesXXXX
Remote streaming playback controlX
PEQ, x-over, channel level, delay, compression, 2x4 routingXXXX
Number input x output channels2x42x42x42x4
Maximum input sample rate216 kHz216 kHz216 kHz192 kHz
Internal processing bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Dirac Live process bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Input voltage range0.9 - 2 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
Output voltage0.9 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
*TRS ** XLR ***Only Flex Digital ****2 Vrms unbalanced, 4 Vrms balanced


Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer
 
Last edited:

abdo123

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Here is a comparison guide that may help you out.

miniDSP Dirac Live 2x4 Comparison Guide
DDRC-24Flex RCAFlex BalancedSHD
Bluetooth LDAC High DefinitionXX
Built in Streamer VolumioX
Balanced analog I/OX*X**
RCA Single ended analog I/OXXX
TOSLINK digital inputXXXX
USB digital inputXXXX
SPDIF digital InputXXX
AES-EBU digital inputsX
SPDIF digital outputs******X
TOSLINK digital outputs******
Front panel display and control knobXXX
Remote selectable inputs, volume & tone modesXXXX
Remote streaming playback controlX
PEQ, x-over, channel level, delay, compression, 2x4 routingXXXX
Number input x output channels2x42x42x42x4
Maximum input sample rate216 kHz216 kHz216 kHz192 kHz
Internal processing bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Dirac Live process bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Input voltage range0.9 - 2 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
Output voltage0.9 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
*TRS ** XLR ***Only Flex Digital ****2 Vrms unbalanced, 4 Vrms balanced


Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer
Your output voltage on the DDRC-24 is incorrect. and there is no 0.9 Vrms input jumper like the MiniDSP 2x4 (no HD) either.
 

archerious

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Here is a comparison guide that may help you out.

miniDSP Dirac Live 2x4 Comparison Guide
DDRC-24Flex RCAFlex BalancedSHD
Bluetooth LDAC High DefinitionXX
Built in Streamer VolumioX
Balanced analog I/OX*X**
RCA Single ended analog I/OXXX
TOSLINK digital inputXXXX
USB digital inputXXXX
SPDIF digital InputXXX
AES-EBU digital inputsX
SPDIF digital outputs******X
TOSLINK digital outputs******
Front panel display and control knobXXX
Remote selectable inputs, volume & tone modesXXXX
Remote streaming playback controlX
PEQ, x-over, channel level, delay, compression, 2x4 routingXXXX
Number input x output channels2x42x42x42x4
Maximum input sample rate216 kHz216 kHz216 kHz192 kHz
Internal processing bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Dirac Live process bits & sample rate32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 48kHz32 bit / 96kHz
Input voltage range0.9 - 2 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
Output voltage0.9 Vrms2 Vrms4 Vrms2 / 4 Vrms**
*TRS ** XLR ***Only Flex Digital ****2 Vrms unbalanced, 4 Vrms balanced


Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer
Very helpful info.

I went for SHD simply for SE and balanced outputs as well as AES. But wow the Flex is impressive especially considering its price.
 

deercreekaudio

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Your output voltage on the DDRC-24 is incorrect. and there is no 0.9 Vrms input jumper like the MiniDSP 2x4 (no HD) either.
Thank you for catching the input sensitivity typo on the DDRC-24. Following are the complete, corrected details:

On the DDRC-24 jumpers can be used to set input sensitivity. The jumpers are located near the analog input and can be set to either 2 VRMS or 4 VRMS as shown by the highlighted locations below. The default setting as shipped is 2 VRMS. It should be noted that there is a 6dB insertion loss if you select the 4 VRMS input sensitivity.

DDRC-24 Jumpers.jpg

For updated, detailed comparison information, you can check out our Dirac Live Selection Guide here: https://deercreekaudio.com/selection-guides
 
Last edited:

aschen

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Flex seems like a great product.

I went for full SHD myself ironically for its flexibility. It has great IO and is a lovely product. I think its worth the extra $$ if you can deal with the width especially if you are buying the dirac license.
 

Peluvius

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I have recently put a flex into my desktop system, 8030c with an SVS 3000 micro sub. I went balanced because I am going to buy everything from here on balanced as a general approach. I mainly went with this to implement Dirac, which I am still experimenting with And to better integrate my sub. The sub integration is excellent and worth it to me just for that. It has made a big improvement in bass reproduction. My early experience is that Dirac will give me a flatter response but I seem not to prefer that to the original unprocessed sound so I am guessing at this point I still have some learning to do…. No idea how the flex relates to other products sonically but the flex is very flexible which I also like.
 

deercreekaudio

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I have recently put a flex into my desktop system, 8030c with an SVS 3000 micro sub. I went balanced because I am going to buy everything from here on balanced as a general approach. I mainly went with this to implement Dirac, which I am still experimenting with And to better integrate my sub. The sub integration is excellent and worth it to me just for that. It has made a big improvement in bass reproduction. My early experience is that Dirac will give me a flatter response but I seem not to prefer that to the original unprocessed sound so I am guessing at this point I still have some learning to do…. No idea how the flex relates to other products sonically but the flex is very flexible which I also like.
Mastering Dirac Live takes experimentation and experience. It helps to think of Dirac Live in two different ways: First is in the frequency domain, where Dirac attempts to fit the frequency response to a classic Harmon tilt curve or one of your choosing. Second is in the timing / phase domain, where Dirac is attempting to improve the impulse response of the overall system.

With corrections in the frequency response, many times high-end audio system users are immediately deprived of some extra emphasis or de-emphasis in their frequency response. This may be extra warmness in the mid bass, extra roll off on the high frequencies or some other anomaly that was found pleasing to their ear. One of the ways to alleviate this is to adjust the Dirac Live target curve to more closely fit the original curve that you were enjoying with your speakers.

It may take a while to understand and be able to appreciate the improvements that Dirac Live makes in the timing / phase domain. When you do, you’ll hear the layering and separation between the various instruments and the vocals that only Dirac can provide.

With some time and experience users generally become accustomed to the improvements made with Dirac and would not go back.

There are a lot of factors to consider when implementing a Dirac project. We like to say that getting an SHD with Dirac Live is not like going on a date. It’s more like getting married, and with a little work it will produce the sweetest response.

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer and we welcome calls from our customers.
 

Peluvius

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Mastering Dirac Live takes experimentation and experience. It helps to think of Dirac Live in two different ways: First is in the frequency domain, where Dirac attempts to fit the frequency response to a classic Harmon tilt curve or one of your choosing. Second is in the timing / phase domain, where Dirac is attempting to improve the impulse response of the overall system.

With corrections in the frequency response, many times high-end audio system users are immediately deprived of some extra emphasis or de-emphasis in their frequency response. This may be extra warmness in the mid bass, extra roll off on the high frequencies or some other anomaly that was found pleasing to their ear. One of the ways to alleviate this is to adjust the Dirac Live target curve to more closely fit the original curve that you were enjoying with your speakers.

It may take a while to understand and be able to appreciate the improvements that Dirac Live makes in the timing / phase domain. When you do, you’ll hear the layering and separation between the various instruments and the vocals that only Dirac can provide.

With some time and experience users generally become accustomed to the improvements made with Dirac and would not go back.

There are a lot of factors to consider when implementing a Dirac project. We like to say that getting an SHD with Dirac Live is not like going on a date. It’s more like getting married, and with a little work it will produce the sweetest response.

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer and we welcome calls from our customers.

Are there any situations where you would not recommend Dirac?

The measurements on and off are remarkably similar. There is a volume difference at certain frequencies, introduced by the EQ which may account for the preference I am having. I am listening nearfield (1m) and measuring the outcomes with REW.

My objective is accurate reproduction. I don't consider my system as part of the musical performance and as far as I can remove it I will.
 

abdo123

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Thank you for catching the input sensitivity typo on the DDRC-24. Following are the complete, corrected details:

On the DDRC-24 jumpers can be used to set input sensitivity. The jumpers are located near the analog input and can be set to either 2 VRMS or 4 VRMS as shown by the highlighted locations below. The default setting as shipped is 2 VRMS. It should be noted that there is a 6dB insertion loss if you select the 4 VRMS input sensitivity.

View attachment 223804
For updated, detailed comparison information, you can check out our Dirac Live Selection Guide here: https://deercreekaudio.com/selection-guides

Do you have any idea if a similar jumper exists in the miniDSP Flex?
 

deercreekaudio

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Do you have any idea if a similar jumper exists in the miniDSP Flex?
The I/O max levels are fixed:

Flex RCA - Maximum levels 2.0 Vrms input, 2.0 Vrms output

Flex Balanced - Maximum levels 4.0 Vrms input, 4.0 Vrms output

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer and we welcome questions from our customers.
 

Avp1

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View attachment 216845Hello everyone, I'm new for this lovely community!There are few desk setup speakers question to ask you!

My current setup is Mac> DDRC24> pair of Genelec 8010A, and I am planning to upgrade to flex or even SHD.

1.Does anyone own those? Please tell me your experience!
2.How's big different between from DDRC-24 to Flex even SHD?
3.Is it a necessary the factor flex's Balanced and unbalanced in/output?

Thank you all!

Regarding SHD. I got it to put into tape loop in my preamp. There were two issues. First is fixed input level. SHD clips at 2 volts. When I used digital player, it caused SHD to clip. I had to reduce output of player by 6dB, this likely lost some resolution and dynamic range important for high-res playback. Then, though everyone praises A/D and D/A capabilities of SHD, I was not happy with transparency even when I turned off Dirac processing. I do listen to vinyl, thus needed to use SHD in analogue loop. In the end I purchased a separate A/D/A interface (Anthelope Pure2) and use SHD in digital only mode. That way when I turn off Dirac, I hear no difference with sound when I bypass loop.
 

deercreekaudio

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Regarding SHD. I got it to put into tape loop in my preamp. There were two issues. First is fixed input level. SHD clips at 2 volts. When I used digital player, it caused SHD to clip. I had to reduce output of player by 6dB, this likely lost some resolution and dynamic range important for high-res playback. Then, though everyone praises A/D and D/A capabilities of SHD, I was not happy with transparency even when I turned off Dirac processing. I do listen to vinyl, thus needed to use SHD in analogue loop. In the end I purchased a separate A/D/A interface (Anthelope Pure2) and use SHD in digital only mode. That way when I turn off Dirac, I hear no difference with sound when I bypass loop.
9/21/22 - SHD - Audio Science Review SHD placement and double conversions

It's fairly common to find tape monitor loops that exceed the 2 volt input limit and as you have discovered the miniDSP SHD will not tolerate input clipping. The best solution is to move the SHD to the preamp outputs and then take the output of the SHD into your power amplifier.

Another suggestion would be to go into the analog inputs of the SHD from a standalone phono preamp. For the digital inputs (such as CD player) to go digital directly into the SHD digital inputs. This avoids a D/A/D double conversion.

Check out our Tech Blog on “The Best Ways to Avoid Unnecessary Digital and Analog Conversions” here: https://deercreekaudio.com/tech-blog/f/the-double-conversion-conundrum
 
Last edited:

Avp1

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9/21/22 - SHD - Audio Science Review SHD placement and double conversions

It's fairly common to find tape monitor loops that exceed the 2 volt input limit and as you have discovered the miniDSP SHD will not tolerate input clipping. The best solution is to move the SHD to the preamp outputs and then take the output of the SHD into your power amplifier.

Another suggestion would be to go into the analog inputs of the SHD from a standalone phono preamp. For the digital inputs (such as CD player) to go digital directly into the SHD digital inputs. This avoids a D/A/D double conversion.

Check out our Tech Blog on “The Best Ways to Avoid Unnecessary Digital and Analog Conversions” here: https://deercreekaudio.com/tech-blog/f/the-double-conversion-conundrum

I my case I added external ADC/DAC device. In this case SHD Studio can be used to save some money. Though SHD plus external interface is almost equal in price to Trinnov
 
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