I've been back and forth with him on this. This is why the "limp mode" is so egregious: there is just no indication (so of course it's not reported in the web status screen)!
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Pioneer VSX-LX505 Power Remeasurement
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
This is not true. I had collected comments well over a year ago and posted a very unpopular thread over at AVS (I wonder why). Even our own @dlaloum made it to the list of stories. Perhaps w/his positive experience w/his current 4800, he may finally be convinced what Amir's benchmarks have been saying all along concerning the 2021 PAC AVRs and "everyone else".
It would be nice to confirm whether your reported and measured "protection" shutdown, is the same as the "protection" mode reflected in the status window...
Sadly we are seeing all sorts of devices move away from on device displays, and move to screen based displays - I don't consider this a positive change, for most situations and devices... I believe it to be bean counter driven cost cutting, but it is a current trend, and one that appears to be accelerating.
Whether we like it or not, the complaint that the device is not reporting the protection mode, may well be unwarranted, as it may well be reporting it, just not where us dinosaurs expect it to be!!
(yes I rode a stegosaurus through the snows to school, and we had an LP changer console in the lounge room... and TV was only present when visiting my grandparents, we didn't have such expensive luxuries in our home till later...)
Different issues - I never encountered the protection issues... but I did encounter the issue I have described, but only with my more difficult speakers - and with those difficult speakers, the protection mode was never triggered...
So I believe them to be completely seperate symptoms of two differing aspects of the amp design in the lower ranks of the RZ series.... (RZ50/RZ30)
Also there are many amp designs that show increased distortion into difficult reactive loads (like my Gallo's) - and I have a gut feeling that this may be one of the major causes of the mythology of "amps sound different".
We have yet to see evidence that the "limp mode" is different from the "protection" mode reported on the status screen.
There is no basis therefore for the claim that "of course it's not reported in the web status screen"
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I just read your link. Not real convincing. It was anecdotal. Many of the complaints were about "thinning" sound. Some talked about load on thier speakers. I do jot want to argue the point. I am not advocating fir a product. I am glad Amir is open enough to go back to things.
I enjoy Amir's tests. The only thing I would like to see as a relative newbie to the hobby is more comments on what would be audible or not and the power output to multiple speakers being tested. I feel like that's probably the most important test for an AVR and I assume it's not easy and that's why it's not done.
I agree it wasn’t 100% convincing and so the thread died a natural death.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #111
Of course you have. Protection shuts the unit down with clear indication, and power going to zero in my measurements. This power limiting is the same thing many AVRs do when you set them to 4 ohm. They quietly power limit to pass UL temperature rise limit. They can't put an indicator there as then UL will fail them in the test.
In the case of other AVRs, they simply tell you they don't support 4 ohm even though they clearly can, and vast majority of speakers are 4 ohm. What Pioneer is doing here is using a heuristic to automatically go into that mode and stay there. Kind of like dieselgate that VW and others went through to pass emissions. They should simply do what others have done instead of screwing around here. This also explains why it doesn't reset itself on power restart. Only an unplug and replug resets it.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #112
Then show that screenshot and how it indicates this power limiting mode.
That is partly makes my point - the web status "protection" tag, obviously does not refer the the full shut down protection, as when that occurs, there is no possible way of accessing the status!! - So it must refer to something else - logically it would refer to the "limp mode" as some have named it... or the "power limiting mode" - but without actually monitoring it while testing it on a lab bench... we won't know exactly what that refers to as PAC has not seen fit to provide clarification!
And yes perhaps the reason for not showing it on the front panel is shenanigans with the UL / certification process - that is possible!
You have a strange definition of “protection mode”. In the States, it’s exactly as Amir described: AVR powers off to prevent damage to the amp!
Perhaps - but that is what the flag is labelled in the Web UI... and it makes no sense for it to be related to the power off protective circuits.... so I deduce it must refer to what others have called the "limp mode"
@vitola231 recently switched his 505 into 4 ohm mode and had "no effect" after experiencing some oddity in the main 505 review thread. Isn't that clearly a red flag as we all know the 4 ohm mode castrates power on purpose?!! Amir already likened the limp mode to staying down in the 4 ohm mode. Shouldn't going down to the 4 ohm mode have some impact on sound quality if this "fictional" limp mode didn't exist? Isn't this the smoking gun?
Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review
Reconnected receiver and tried FM in stereo etc, low volume, -27 comfortable level. Reset receiver, went through setup but no correction, FM in stereo, low volume, -27 comfortable level. Tried internet radio, flat sounding, low volume but slightly better, -37 comfortable. Ran room correction and...
www.audiosciencereview.com
It seems the 4ohm mode drops the max voltage... (and therefore power) - but if all you need is below that max threshold, then it will indeed make "no difference"@vitola231 recently switched his 505 into 4 ohm mode and had "no effect" after experiencing some oddity in the main 505 review thread. Isn't that clearly a red flag as we all know the 4 ohm mode castrates power on purpose?!! Amir already likened the limp mode to staying down in the 4 ohm mode. Shouldn't going down to the 4 ohm mode have some impact on sound quality if this "fictional" limp mode didn't exist? Isn't this the smoking gun?
Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review
Reconnected receiver and tried FM in stereo etc, low volume, -27 comfortable level. Reset receiver, went through setup but no correction, FM in stereo, low volume, -27 comfortable level. Tried internet radio, flat sounding, low volume but slightly better, -37 comfortable. Ran room correction and...
My own setup even when using my 440W Crown monster amps, only uses around 1W continuous and has never exceeded the 16W peak point (at which point there is an amp LED that lights up)
That would probably fit easily within the 4ohm mode....
I don't know if you were following his comments but he wasn't happy with the sound...
Thanks for pointing that out, yes I had missed his comments.... they sound not dissimilar to my own.
These AVR's do not like difficult/reactive loads.
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- Sep 10, 2025
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I have the rz70. Still haven't plugged it in. It's supposed to be my bedroom AVR because I want to approximate the 7.4.4 in my living room I have with my X4800H (bought thanks to Amir's review ). I was just learning how this site worked or I'd have just asked Amir if I could send the 70 directly. But I know he's got a lot on his plate in the best of times. Plus I wanted to make sure he paired it with my GR Research power cord I recently had upgraded with No Rez around both plug ends.
Anybody else in the Seattle area have the tools to test it if Amir is still quite busy? Or come help me set it up cuz I never used Dirac since physics class in the 90s. Even my Denon isn't fully set up but I do have all the speakers and subs in their appropriate places (I think). I almost bought the Denon again for the bedroom but that would just have been so boring and I thought I'd take the chance on the 70 given the review of the 50. Also the goal in the bedroom is to go AVR only for power and the Denon "only" powers 9 channels.
If there's something I can just do with the 70 to see if it will trigger the power limiting with 4Ω speakers, just tell me how and I'll do it. I have LRS+ Magnepans which should do the trick. Or I could wire a few 8Ω speakers in parallel too right? Then what, just blast dynamic music until some warning light comes on?
