Pioneer VSX-LX505 Power Remeasurement

[amirm]

Back in 2023, I reviewed the Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR. It received the fully broken verdict from me:

Reason was that it would severely power limit in my sweeps:

Folks theorized that this was maybe fixed in firmware. Well, a member was kind enough to loan me a sample and he assured me is running the latest firmware.

I put it on the bench, reset it to factory, and as soon as I ran my sweep, it was already power limiting!!! See the red line:

As before, mere power cycling using the front button does not restore power. However, if you unplug the AC cord, wait a few seconds, and then repower, you get all the available power (in green). So everything is as broken as before but for some reason, I am getting more power out of the unit before it attempted to limit.

I ran the sweep a third time and it still delivered full power. Then I ran a stress test around 50 watts and problem came back.

So while behavior seems to have changed, fundamental issues with this AVR remain.

Shameful really.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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[JSmith]

Huh, still broken... thanks for re-confirming this is a lemon Amir.

Pics;

Others in my previous post here;

Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

My last house was an Eichler copy with a 1,000 sq ft living room and 12' ceilings at the peak. Big room to fill. I had an Aerial Acoustics surround system (very inefficient speakers ) and a JL F113 sub. I had some people over to watch Master and Commander at a high volume and it sounded like...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[perceptionist]

The world is eager to know whether Onkyo RZ30 still has this issue. I guess RZ70 and Integra DRX-8.4 do not.

 

[Power Pop 23]

The world is eager to know whether Onkyo RZ30 still has this issue. I guess RZ70 and Integra DRX-8.4 do not.

Yes,

Hopefully a member can loan any of these three AVR's to Amir for measurement.

 

[Ajax]

Hi Amir, there is a typo in the second graph if you can be bothered fixing " Full power after plug/unplug AC code" (should read cord)

 

[popej]

What frequency are you using for power sweep? Is it 1kHz?
I have some impression, that one of these AVR (Onkyo?), went to power limiting after high frequency sweeps, 10kHz or 15kHz.
Usually an AVR has sensors for output current, which are analyzed by microprocessor. I guess that too many overcurrent occurrences trigger protection. This could be very different for high frequency sweep than for high level of music signal. It would explain, why users do not notice problems.

IHO the main problem with Pioneer is, that there is no indication of protected mode (which is probably the same as 4 Ohm mode). Have you checked if there is any indication on web interface?

 

[popej]

Another tought. You perform peak power measuremonts on amps. I couldn't find description of the procedure, but if it is not a continous stress, maybe it wont trigger protection? Would be interesting to check.

 

[AndreaT]

Ugly, horrible, could the unfortunate owners file for damages? AVRs are a scourge for Music.

 

[Chr1]

Seems like Pioneer's AVRs have got worse, rather than better over the years. I use a SC-LX86 Elite, which is more than 10 years old now and love it.
It puts out plenty of power into nine channels, has USB input, and runs barely warm to the touch even when pushed hard. Have recently bought another as a backup second hand, as I don't need more channels or Atmos.
WTF happened Pioneer?!

 

[Power Pop 23]

Seems like Pioneer's AVRs have got worse, rather than better over the years. I use a SC-LX86 Elite, which is more than 10 years old now and love it.
It puts out plenty of power into nine channels, has USB input, and runs barely warm to the touch even when pushed hard. Have recently bought another as a backup second hand, as I don't need more channels or Atmos.
WTF happened Pioneer?!

Pioneer Electronics decided over a decade ago to concentrate on audio for vehicles and sold their home audio business to Onkyo.

 

[beagleman]

Ugly, horrible, could the unfortunate owners file for damages? AVRs are a scourge for Music.

Meaning what??

I have owned 3 yamahas of various levels, from entry to mid to the Aventage series, and all sound and work great!

 

[Power Pop 23]

Ugly, horrible, could the unfortunate owners file for damages? AVRs are a scourge for Music.

My cynical side likes to tell me no class-action lawsuit was filed because law firms assessed the original owner of Onkyo lacked enough assets to pay a judgement against them.

In his original review, Amir said he could not recommend the Pioneer '505' AVR unless it was used as a processor.

This sample '505' will go back to using external amplification to power loudspeakers - including ironically - some of the 7-channel analog inputs of an Onkyo TX-SR805 AVR.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

"Elite" my ass

 

[Chr1]

Yeah, always thought the Elite title was a bit pretentious.

My old SC-LX86 was tested back in the day.
Translated from German:

"The Pioneer stereo praises the power of 2 x 161 W and 2 x 264 W (8 and 4 ohms), performs well when connecting more channels, Five-channel (so we have a load test) providing 5 x 119 watts (8 ohms) and up to 5 x 142 W (4 ohms)."

Just a tad better than the current offering.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Yeah, always thought the Elite title was a bit pretentious.

My old SC-LX86 was tested back in the day.
Translated from German:

"The Pioneer stereo praises the power of 2 x 161 W and 2 x 264 W (8 and 4 ohms), performs well when connecting more channels, Five-channel (so we have a load test) providing 5 x 119 watts (8 ohms) and up to 5 x 142 W (4 ohms)."

Just a tad better than the current offering.

I give kudos to the original owner (Pioneer Electronics) for offering the AVR market the option of Class-D amplification and hiring Andrew Jones to design entry-level loudspeakers.

 

[jdbob]

I ran a LX305 for many years in 5.1 and 8 ohm setting without any problems that I could tell. Once I added the height speakers then after a few minutes I could hear a relay click in the unit, presumably switching to the 4 ohm setting. If I configured it for 4 ohm then no relay click. Eventually I upgraded to a X4800H with an external A70 amp to 7.1.4 and that was a huge improvement. Plus all the extra configurability over the 305 was nice to have, especially being able to set individual crossovers for wildly different speakers. The 305 got moved to the office where Dirac really helped with dubious in ceiling speakers.

 

[EWL5]

Disappointing but not unexpected. Let’s see what 2027 brings (only from Onkyo at this point)…

 

[valerianf]

I just want to give my personal experience: I replaced a Yamaha RX-A700 with a Onkyo RZ30.
The AVR only drives the LCR speakers.
There is no subwoofer but two large tower speakers with two 8" woofer each.
Verdict: the Onkyo is a revelation, with a strong low frequencies drive that the Yamaha was unable to provide.

 

[amirm]

I ran a LX305 for many years in 5.1 and 8 ohm setting without any problems that I could tell. Once I added the height speakers then after a few minutes I could hear a relay click in the unit, presumably switching to the 4 ohm setting. If I configured it for 4 ohm then no relay click.

I think you fully disabled high power mode that way! I too heard a faint relay click when power limiting kicked in. And setting to 4 ohm, on any of these AVRs, guarantees power limiting as otherwise, they will fail the UL heat rise test. In other words, what you experienced is not a good thing.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

I've always used my similar Pioneer VSX-LX503 only as a processor. When running pink noise at moderate levels on any channel, I hear relays clicking, presumably as the countdown to power limiting begins. There were times in years past where it would shut down under the same conditions, but that hasn't happened in a long time. No idea why. Again, I stress that NO speaker has ever been attached to the speaker outputs. (I've always left it in "6 Ohm" mode, the only alternative being 4 Ohm.)