Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[Power Pop 23]

I know there have been a number of folks pining for a measurement of the RZ30. I don't think it's necessary and here's why:

1) 2021 PAC AVRs enjoyed a great debut and held pricing for some time.
2) Less than 3 years later, these AVRs can be found heavily discounted (well before Pioneer license was dropped)
3) The RZ30 came out Oct '24 and held near retail price for a bit.
4) Just about a year later, the RZ30 could be had at considerable discount. It was going for as low as $700 in the States. It wasn't lost on a lot of enthusiasts that the RZ30 was just an incremental update over the '21 7100/305/DRX3.4 clones.

Based on the above, does anyone truly think that Onkyo beefed up the RZ30 in any appreciable way based on how quickly street prices dropped? Yes, this is complete speculation but I find it funny that Denon/Marantz units increased in both retail and pre-owned pricing in the same timeframe!

I am not comfortable extrapolating from the street price of the Onkyo TX-RZ30 as to how the AVR was designed.

Premium Audio Corporation (PAC) bought Onkyo in September 2021 and released the Onkyo TX-RZ30 in September 2024.

I'd like to know if PAC is using the same 'protection' for the Onkyo TX-RZ30 as in the Pioneer '505' AVR.

 

[EWL5]

I am not comfortable extrapolating from the street price of the Onkyo TX-RZ30 as to how the AVR was designed.

Premium Audio Corporation (PAC) bought Onkyo in September 2021 and released the Onkyo TX-RZ30 in September 2024.

I'd like to know if PAC is using the same 'protection' for the Onkyo TX-RZ30 as in the Pioneer '505' AVR.

That's fair. Everything is speculation until the RZ30 is in Amir's hands!

 

[vitola231]

Why did you return it so quickly?!
It was still under warranty and any issue could've been fixed even after the return window has closed.

Maybe I'm just too spoiled by the European warranty laws, but so far, I have always "won" when there was an issue with a device.

It was because I had a return window at best buy for one and "fault" was immediately present. Also it was an accidental sort of purchase in a way, it was a good deal so I bought it but wasn't really looking to buy a receiver. The other issue is I think it was you who had mentioned different lets say input formats (dolby, dtx or etc etc) affecting sound and output and I even noticed this on my bluray "audio only" output in certain format having almost no sub volume which seems to be an issue with this particular player that changing formats seems to fix, all of this kind of tells me all this stuff isn't really plug and play like in the old days and requires some learning. I'm working 7 days a week and just have very limited time so I'm now just learning a bit at a time and experimenting with my existing Anthem, I recently changed one dolby setting in the unit and sound greatly improved so I'm going to tiptoe my way into the modern AVR learning. In the audio world I was kind of left behind in the mid 90's when changing caps or tubes etc changed the sound and processing was a graphic EQ. I'm going to find videos about all this stuff, learn about my new bluray player then add a new receiver into the mix this summer. Also worth noting is we get left behind for service and parts in Canada very very quickly so change of ownership etc is a big concern for me. Very few companies treat Canada very well (highly regulated, small population) the only company I'm loyal to is Miele really, they still stock simple O-rings for my 12 year old espresso machine and will directly sell them to me which is why all my appliances are Miele.

 

[MbphotoX]

It was because I had a return window at best buy for one and "fault" was immediately present. Also it was an accidental sort of purchase in a way, it was a good deal so I bought it but wasn't really looking to buy a receiver. The other issue is I think it was you who had mentioned different lets say input formats (dolby, dtx or etc etc) affecting sound and output and I even noticed this on my bluray "audio only" output in certain format having almost no sub volume which seems to be an issue with this particular player that changing formats seems to fix, all of this kind of tells me all this stuff isn't really plug and play like in the old days and requires some learning. I'm working 7 days a week and just have very limited time so I'm now just learning a bit at a time and experimenting with my existing Anthem, I recently changed one dolby setting in the unit and sound greatly improved so I'm going to tiptoe my way into the modern AVR learning. In the audio world I was kind of left behind in the mid 90's when changing caps or tubes etc changed the sound and processing was a graphic EQ. I'm going to find videos about all this stuff, learn about my new bluray player then add a new receiver into the mix this summer. Also worth noting is we get left behind for service and parts in Canada very very quickly so change of ownership etc is a big concern for me. Very few companies treat Canada very well (highly regulated, small population) the only company I'm loyal to is Miele really, they still stock simple O-rings for my 12 year old espresso machine and will directly sell them to me which is why all my appliances are Miele.

yeah, you really want all output to be Bitstream, and let the AVR handle all processing.
an accidental push of a button can send the AVR into "surround" mode, which usually sounds absolutely terrible (because it tries to blow up stereo audio into surround.. but maybe I'm too oldschool, there..)

I guess I understand where you're coming from, then.

Being in Europe clearly is a luxury with regards of consumer rights.

 

[vitola231]

yeah, you really want all output to be Bitstream, and let the AVR handle all processing.
an accidental push of a button can send the AVR into "surround" mode, which usually sounds absolutely terrible (because it tries to blow up stereo audio into surround.. but maybe I'm too oldschool, there..)

I guess I understand where you're coming from, then.

Being in Europe clearly is a luxury with regards of consumer rights.

"Being in Europe clearly is a luxury with regards of consumer rights" Without doubt but it's also an economic matter, when you have a large country with a small population and it's own special set of regulations it spins off monopolies and to be fair to manufacturers problems can quickly wipe out margins in the country. Consumer electronics largely bypasses this problem but for example, screws and nails are all Hillman, every single hardware store has the exact same displays with the exact same prices and they are hillman. These aren't great quality fasteners but they are the only brand, another fastener "manufacturer" wouldn't even attempt to come into the market because there is no space to make a profit. We are in a way a captive audience. I have to say though, even though I've avoided them until about a year ago, Amazon is a huge life saver when it comes to availability.

 

[MbphotoX]

I am sure in many use cases, the so called limp mode may not matter because in those cases it may never, or too rarely get activated. For other cases where users are affected, it wouldn't matter as much if the manufacturer had included warning/indicator when the mode is active. There is likely other simple fix they can do, but at the minimum they should offer a FW update that adds a "limp mode" indicator so that the user knows and have the option to back off the volume accordingly after a power cycle.

It is good that there are people "whiney.." about this, as it might increase the chance that manufacturers might be more motivated to do something about it. It is also good to see manufacturers value continuous improvements in terms of quality, and that includes not just in terms of reliability but also performance.

as far as we can tell, the "limp mode" as found by Amir, has NEVER been activated, ever..

We had one single member do power consumption measurements of their AVR.
And everyone here jumped to the conclusion that the user was experiencing "limp mode"..

When someone explained the duality of the power supply, with dual voltage rails, and a relay switching between the two, and the user successfully CONFIRMED this to be the case; nobody acknowledged their fault..
you guys still insisted that this was "limp mode"..

But what Amir has witnessed is the AVR shutting down power to prevent burning out or whatever.. because Amir demanded continuous power output beyond the specified limits of the device.. Amir never even tested the device within specifications, at 1V output (as per the manual), or 120W output into 8 Ohms. He never even tested the device at 0dB, either, and went straight into "overdrive" mode, turning the volume beyond the maximum.

Yes, the device should have notified that it had "shut down" or anything.. but Amir failed at testing it properly.. and he never apologised for doing so. Instead, he let you guys stoke the flames against a product that you never even used..


And no, the Receiver switching relays to lower power consumption does NOT negatively affect the sound.
As soon as you turn the volume up again, you hear the relays switch back to provide more power to the amp section.


And EWL5 needs to stop it already with the spreading of FUD about a device he has never used!

Even 7 Speakers will be happy with 35 Watts to produce movie theater sound at -20dB below reference level! (that's 85dB peak volume, which would require BURSTS of power as high as 4-6 watts from a speaker with as little as 86dB sensitivity!) But the 65 dB average sound pressure level coming from a single speaker?!
We're in the FRACTIONS of a watt of power required..

Yes, if you listen at higher levels, -10dB or -6dB even (which is what THX recommends for regular sized rooms, due to room gain), then you need more power, of course, but only for bursts of fractions of a second.

But here we are again: nobody actively using the amplifier has EVER experienced it actually going into limp mode..

So far, all evidence points towards user error in this last case, too..

 

[Will P]

I have "Onkyo TX-SR3100 AVR 5.1" and I did exhaustive measurements mostly without load trying to figure out the behavior of the Pioneer/ Onkyo protection logic based on output voltage levels.

Here are some of my findings:
1. Music playing - I never managed to trigger Power Protection in real life while measuring output signal in no load - that is Power Protection based on output voltages alone.
Power protection based on output signal voltage doesn't engage until severe clipping is maintained (+12dB above clipping)
2. Power protection when playing Music usually restores itself when signal lowered -8dB below clipping. For severe power protection case turning AVR Off/On restores power. No need to unplug AVR.
3. Output terminal voltage when loaded with 4 Ohm speaker vs no load - the voltage drops from 17.4 VRMS (no load) to 17.0 VRMS (4 Ohm load; 70W output in 4 Ohm load when 1ch measured).
Output voltage drops only -0.2dB when output is loaded with 4 Ohm load- solid rail voltage, very capable power supply.

Onkyo TX-SR3100 AVR 5.1-Channel used as XLR preamp - measurements

Hi everyone! This is my first post here. Many thanks to Amir for the hard work and detailed measurements and analysis in each review. Many thanks to the rest of the ASR community for the feedback and info provided. Onkyo TX-SR3100 It's advertised as 5.2 but in reality it is 5.1 with 2...

www.audiosciencereview.com

.

 

[Printdivision]

I updated to 505 today, I didn't notice anything changed (I didn't even have time to check thoroughly). Did you do it?

 

[mariusxv]

I have a Pioneer LX505 and it’s behaving strangely.
My setup: MCACC on, Sound Retriever off, tone controls off, and I listen in Stereo mode.
After powering it on, the sound is normal. But if I power it off and then back on, the sound changes—it’s like a different EQ is being applied.
To fix it, I press Auto Surround on the remote to switch to Direct, then back to Auto Surround, and the sound returns to normal.

This happens every time I go through that power cycle.
Has anyone else noticed this?
PS Firmware version R145

 

[EWL5]

I have a Pioneer LX505 and it’s behaving strangely.
My setup: MCACC on, Sound Retriever off, tone controls off, and I listen in Stereo mode.
After powering it on, the sound is normal. But if I power it off and then back on, the sound changes—it’s like a different EQ is being applied.
To fix it, I press Auto Surround on the remote to switch to Direct, then back to Auto Surround, and the sound returns to normal.

This happens every time I go through that power cycle.
Has anyone else noticed this?
PS Firmware version R145

1) Has this always happened since you owned the 505?
2) What speakers are you running?
3) Have your MCACC settings been maintained?
4) What is your method of powering on or off if not using a remote?

 

[mariusxv]

1...Yes
2...KEF R11Meta
3...Yes MCCAC is ON
4...I use the remote to Power on/off

 

[EWL5]

1...Yes
2...KEF R11Meta
3...Yes MCCAC is ON
4...I use the remote to Power on/off

Amir tested the R11 Meta. Here's the impedance curve:

You can see the min impedance of 3.2 ohms at 580 Hz!

You have observed 2 things from Amir's review of the 505:

• Amir's 4 ohm test predicted poor power output due to "involuntary 4 ohm mode" (aka "limp mode").
• Amir noticed that power was temporarily restored during power cycling (that is why you are hearing differences before heavy usage and after a power cycle).

You can test the first bullet point yourself by forcing the 505 into the 4 ohm mode. Go to "Speaker Impedance" in your menu and choose "4 ohms" instead of the default. If toggling b/w the 2 modes makes no difference, then you are further proving my point concerning the power output.

 

[mariusxv]

Amir tested the R11 Meta. Here's the impedance curve:

You can see the min impedance of 3.2 ohms at 580 Hz!

You have observed 2 things from Amir's review of the 505:

• Amir's 4 ohm test predicted poor power output due to "involuntary 4 ohm mode" (aka "limp mode").
• Amir noticed that power was temporarily restored during power cycling (that is why you are hearing differences before heavy usage and after a power cycle).

You can test the first bullet point yourself by forcing the 505 into the 4 ohm mode. Go to "Speaker Impedance" in your menu and choose "4 ohms" instead of the default. If toggling b/w the 2 modes makes no difference, then you are further proving my point concerning the power output.

This is happening at very low levels at first start .No time to enter in limp mode.
I tried both 4 ohm and 6 ohm on settings but it;s the same.
Do you own a 505? with firmware R145?Can you test please?

 

[mariusxv]

I was able to reproduce the same change in sound without performing a power cycle.
I set the Zone Preout to Zone B. Then, on any source, I pressed “AV Adjust” and, in the Audio settings, changed Zone B to A+B, and then back to Off.
After doing this, the sound changed. To return it to normal, I pressed the Auto/Direct button, switching from Direct/Pure Direct back to Stereo mode.

 

[EWL5]

This is happening at very low levels at first start .No time to enter in limp mode.
I tried both 4 ohm and 6 ohm on settings but it;s the same.
Do you own a 505? with firmware R145?Can you test please?

I don't have a 505. Perhaps some owners will chime in?

 

[MbphotoX]

I have a Pioneer LX505 and it’s behaving strangely.
My setup: MCACC on, Sound Retriever off, tone controls off, and I listen in Stereo mode.
After powering it on, the sound is normal. But if I power it off and then back on, the sound changes—it’s like a different EQ is being applied.
To fix it, I press Auto Surround on the remote to switch to Direct, then back to Auto Surround, and the sound returns to normal.

This happens every time I go through that power cycle.
Has anyone else noticed this?
PS Firmware version R145

Are you using a stereo setup and listening in auto surround mode?!
(Auto Surround is intended to "stretch" a stereo signal across your surround channels)

Also, please ignore EWL5, he cannot resist the urge to shit on this receiver, without ever having used one himself.

My B&W Speakers have their min Impedance at 2.8 Ohms and they are perfectly fine with this receiver, even at high volume.


That said, I cannot say that I have ever experienced what you are describing. (I use the Dirac calibration, though, and never touch my remote, lol )

What source are you using? Optical in or analog in?
Streaming via Tidal, spotify, connect, etc.?

When you look at the display of the receiver, what does it list there, for input/output channels, audio mode, etc.
And does that change when you do the power cycle you mentioned?

check page 89 for the listening modes:

https://pioneerglobalsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/44475932372628

(Auto Surround switches through different "surround" profiles.. maybe what you're experiencing is it going back to the "default one" that was stored for your source?!)

 

[mariusxv]

Are you using a stereo setup and listening in auto surround mode?!
(Auto Surround is intended to "stretch" a stereo signal across your surround channels)

Also, please ignore EWL5, he cannot resist the urge to shit on this receiver, without ever having used one himself.

My B&W Speakers have their min Impedance at 2.8 Ohms and they are perfectly fine with this receiver, even at high volume.


That said, I cannot say that I have ever experienced what you are describing. (I use the Dirac calibration, though, and never touch my remote, lol )

What source are you using? Optical in or analog in?
Streaming via Tidal, spotify, connect, etc.?

When you look at the display of the receiver, what does it list there, for input/output channels, audio mode, etc.
And does that change when you do the power cycle you mentioned?

check page 89 for the listening modes:

https://pioneerglobalsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/44475932372628

(Auto Surround switches through different "surround" profiles.. maybe what you're experiencing is it going back to the "default one" that was stored for your source?!)

Setup is 5.1 without a subwoofer and with bi-amp. But when I listen to music, it is always in Stereo mode.
I mean the Auto/Direct button, not Auto Surround (switching from Direct/Pure Direct back to Stereo mode).
I also tried Dirac, but it shows the same behavior. Do you have firmware version R145?
My sources are HDMI, RCA for phono, and Spotify (NET). I always make sure it’s in Stereo mode.
The display shows the name of the source I’m using.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Setup is 5.1 without a subwoofer and with bi-amp. But when I listen to music, it is always in Stereo mode.
I mean the Auto/Direct button, not Auto Surround (switching from Direct/Pure Direct back to Stereo mode).
I also tried Dirac, but it shows the same behavior. Do you have firmware version R145?
My sources are HDMI, RCA for phono, and Spotify (NET). I always make sure it’s in Stereo mode.
The display shows the name of the source I’m using.

Welcome to ASR !

(be advised members 'MbphotoX' and 'EWL5' have disagreed in past postings)

I am running firmware R145 in a 4.1 configuration (with Dirac LIve and external amplification) and do not experience the issue you have.

Consider contacting the manufacturer, Premium Audio Corporation for assistance.

Pioneer Home USA Warranty | Onkyo

View all Policies and Product Warranties from Pioneer.

onkyo.com

I am uncertain of the contact page for customers outside the USA.

 

[mariusxv]

Welcome to ASR !

(be advised members 'MbphotoX' and 'EWL5' have disagreed in past postings)

I am running firmware R145 in a 4.1 configuration (with Dirac LIve and external amplification) and do not experience the issue you have.

Consider contacting the manufacturer, Premium Audio Corporation for assistance.

Pioneer Home USA Warranty | Onkyo

View all Policies and Product Warranties from Pioneer.

onkyo.com

I am uncertain of the contact page for customers outside the USA.

Thank you!
I'll try to contact them.

 

[popej]

The display shows the name of the source I’m using.

I'm using LX305, but i think it works the same. Press "info" button on remote to get more information including sound mode. Unfortunately it doesn't work for internal streamer. I suggest to install Pioneer remote app on the phone. There you can check what are current settings: room correction slot, tone settings, EQ, sound mode. And maybe you could find wich setting is wrong.

Other suggestion: when all works correctly, program a preset button. Then you will be able to easy return to these settings.