Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[vitola231]

Reconnected receiver and tried FM in stereo etc, low volume, -27 comfortable level.
Reset receiver, went through setup but no correction, FM in stereo, low volume, -27 comfortable level.
Tried internet radio, flat sounding, low volume but slightly better, -37 comfortable.
Ran room correction and it had no influence on sound levels.
Tried setting to 4ohm and it had no effect on sound levels.
Checked all speaker wires and did ohm tests on all, everything seems fine. Keep in mind my Anthem MRX500 uses these same speakers and wires without problem though they really focus on their amplification so surely more robust in that department.

I really really like this receiver's sound so tried really hard on this, the sound "out of the box" is nice. Interesting note here, the girl at Pioneer said to return the last one, she didn't say exchange it if that means anything. I can only assume or I kind of feel it's the software update, the timing makes sense for the last one and this one. I checked web interface on both occasions and it didn't show AMP in protection. I theorize that the update does something in the amplification and it is actually going into "limp" mode but not broadcasting it. I unfortunately must give up on the machine, I can only assume EWL5 is correct regarding my speakers with the twist that the update also comes into play.

I have a couple choices, theres a couple old receivers for sale,(I'm perfectly comfortable being behind the times when it comes to latest audio and video formats but want solid performance and reliability) a Denon AVR-x7200W $1,200 (2015 flagship), a Marantz SR7009 for $900 (2014 flagship), a Denon X4700H (2020 bought in 2021) thats been listed for weeks so I'm sure theres room and a new JBLMA9100 at $700 off. I know all these prices seem really high but I'm up in Ontario Canada and it's oddly easier, faster and cheaper to get stuff shipped from China than America, I saw a few Marantz SR7013 in the states that would be $1,100 CAD with conversion but shipping and duties come to $600 CAD. The good thing with flagships is the amplification section is usually going to be good. I can just hold off also and continue using the Anthem. The good thing about the X4700 is it's in my city and the SR7009 is half hour away. The X7200 is two hours drive. The used anthems are just worth a fortune now but they have very low service fees and parts pricing.

 

[EWL5]

Reconnected receiver and tried FM in stereo etc, low volume, -27 comfortable level.
Reset receiver, went through setup but no correction, FM in stereo, low volume, -27 comfortable level.
Tried internet radio, flat sounding, low volume but slightly better, -37 comfortable.
Ran room correction and it had no influence on sound levels.
Tried setting to 4ohm and it had no effect on sound levels.
Checked all speaker wires and did ohm tests on all, everything seems fine. Keep in mind my Anthem MRX500 uses these same speakers and wires without problem though they really focus on their amplification so surely more robust in that department.

I really really like this receiver's sound so tried really hard on this, the sound "out of the box" is nice. Interesting note here, the girl at Pioneer said to return the last one, she didn't say exchange it if that means anything. I can only assume or I kind of feel it's the software update, the timing makes sense for the last one and this one. I checked web interface on both occasions and it didn't show AMP in protection. I theorize that the update does something in the amplification and it is actually going into "limp" mode but not broadcasting it. I unfortunately must give up on the machine, I can only assume EWL5 is correct regarding my speakers with the twist that the update also comes into play.

I have a couple choices, theres a couple old receivers for sale,(I'm perfectly comfortable being behind the times when it comes to latest audio and video formats but want solid performance and reliability) a Denon AVR-x7200W $1,200 (2015 flagship), a Marantz SR7009 for $900 (2014 flagship), a Denon X4700H (2020 bought in 2021) thats been listed for weeks so I'm sure theres room and a new JBLMA9100 at $700 off. I know all these prices seem really high but I'm up in Ontario Canada and it's oddly easier, faster and cheaper to get stuff shipped from China than America, I saw a few Marantz SR7013 in the states that would be $1,100 CAD with conversion but shipping and duties come to $600 CAD. The good thing with flagships is the amplification section is usually going to be good. I can just hold off also and continue using the Anthem. The good thing about the X4700 is it's in my city and the SR7009 is half hour away. The X7200 is two hours drive. The used anthems are just worth a fortune now but they have very low service fees and parts pricing.
View attachment 508598View attachment 508599View attachment 508600

Here's my take on the choices before you (in order of most preferred to least):

1) 4700 - a mostly modern machine that still has years of productivity left, able to work w/the Audyssey app, and local to you. Plus, there should be more room to negotiate as the 4700 falls lower in demand due to the arrival of Dirac ART on the 4800!

2) MA9100HP - an interesting and stylish Class D AVR. Doesn't have any of the tricks of the Japanese brands, is DL capable but you have to pay and maxes out at DL (the included "EZ Set EQ" is terrible by modern RC standards), and the newest of the AVRs considered. Note that JBL has rated this AVR at 140W for both 0.5% and 1.0% THD. Don't be fooled by the wattage number as it's probably more in line w/the 4700 power output than it is to the 7200!

3) 7200 - yes, I understand it was a flagship from well over 10+ years ago and I'm frankly surprised by the codec support and video features desirable by today's standards! Having said that, the AVR is not compatible w/the Audyssey app and the amount of support you'll get from active users of this machine will be difficult to get in forums due to age (not to mention any quirks or bugs from early implementations of said codecs and video features).

4) SR7009 - oldest machine here and incrementally fewer codecs/features (also no Audyssey app support). Don't buy!

I highly recommend you take #3 and #4 out of your consideration due to age unless you don't mind paying a lot for a machine and then having it potentially fail on you in 2-3 years! It's a shame you're not considering a used 3800 as that would easily meet your needs!

 

[vitola231]

Here's my take on the choices before you (in order of most preferred to least):

1) 4700 - a mostly modern machine that still has years of productivity left, able to work w/the Audyssey app, and local to you. Plus, there should be more room to negotiate as the 4700 falls lower in demand due to the arrival of Dirac ART on the 4800!

2) MA9100HP - an interesting and stylish Class D AVR. Doesn't have any of the tricks of the Japanese brands, is DL capable but you have to pay and maxes out at DL (the included "EZ Set EQ" is terrible by modern RC standards), and the newest of the AVRs considered. Note that JBL has rated this AVR at 140W for both 0.5% and 1.0% THD. Don't be fooled by the wattage number as it's probably more in line w/the 4700 power output than it is to the 7200!

3) 7200 - yes, I understand it was a flagship from well over 10+ years ago and I'm frankly surprised by the codec support and video features desirable by today's standards! Having said that, the AVR is not compatible w/the Audyssey app and the amount of support you'll get from active users of this machine will be difficult to get in forums due to age (not to mention any quirks or bugs from early implementations of said codecs and video features).

4) SR7009 - oldest machine here and incrementally fewer codecs/features (also no Audyssey app support). Don't buy!

I highly recommend you take #3 and #4 out of your consideration due to age unless you don't mind paying a lot for a machine and then having it potentially fail on you in 2-3 years! It's a shame you're not considering a used 3800 as that would easily meet your needs!

It's not about not considering a 3800, it's they don't exist up here used or open box or on sale. The total cost for me would be $2,710 tax in, I guess it's a good value proposition and people are keeping them, alternatively I see a couple 4800's around ranging from $2,250 to $2,900 which would cost $4,066 tax in new here so are likely a much better value proposition but still lot's of money. I can only assume these are wealthy people chasing the latest from the pictures they post in adds.

 

[EWL5]

It's not about not considering a 3800, it's they don't exist up here used or open box or on sale. The total cost for me would be $2,710 tax in, I guess it's a good value proposition and people are keeping them, alternatively I see a couple 4800's around ranging from $2,250 to $2,900 which would cost $4,066 tax in new here so are likely a much better value proposition but still lot's of money. I can only assume these are wealthy people chasing the latest from the pictures they post in adds.

I could say I'm biased since I'm a 3800 owner but I've had no issues in the nearly 3 years I've owned mine. We know for a fact that both the 3800 and 4800 should have no issues w/low impedance based on the ASR benchmarks from this site!

Whatever you choose, good luck and keep us posted!

 

[vitola231]

Value is a funny thing to quantify, it's more personal perspective and means then factual. The Pioneer at around $1,300, $900 off which calculating tax is $1,017 savings which was on the edge of value to me personally, the plastic face and door kind of really bothered me. The selling of Pioneer really bothered and instantly illiminated a bunch of value to me. My anthem which I bought used at 3 years old has always seemed like an excellent value, I had one HDMI issue and Anthem replaced the board for $160 and said they had upgraded an amp board so threw that in free. Now someone really wanting direc and maybe envisioning a future of adding an amp the 505 and it's twins surely is an excellent value. The higher end units have the advantage of more attention to the amplification (discreet amp boards, more robust cooling fins etc) but also include tons and tons of features I will never use, the back panel is 90% decoration in my case . I liked the ease of using the MCAC room correction (which I'm sure is standard these days), I liked the sound (though much of this seems to be from the new bluray player, the Anthem sounds better also) I hate the CEC stuff honestly and don't like the remote at all. I have no idea what blutooth 2.0 is or HDMI 2.1 is etc etc or all the music apps, I have internet radio on the Anthem which I used once. Someone else reading this I'm sure is prioritizing streaming music or pre amp outputs or legacy connections.

 

[MbphotoX]

I still don't understand the problem, to be honest..
When I listen to music, SACD, Tidal, Vinyl Records, etc. then I have the volume at -30 to -20 dB on the Receiver.

Your test doesn't appear to have shown any issues with the receiver, rather than you simply wanting to get rid of the device.
You describe the sound to be lacking in dynamics. That's a very simple explanation: higher SPL willr esult in PERCEIVED higher dynamics. Because our ears do NOT have a linear frequency response.
this graph shows you very nicely what WHY old stereo amplifiers had a LOUDNESS button.
If you listen at a low volume (10-30 phons), then the bass would need to play at around 80-90 phons to be PERCEIVED as equally loud as the midrange!

The louder you crank the system, the more LINEAR the whole thing sounds. (but you STILL are less sensitive to lower frequencies. Which is WHY all setups always include a BASS SHELF, with the bass slightly elevated compared to the mids and treble. )

You also see why even a TINY bit louder always results in a "better sound", because we simply perceive it as more linear sounding, then.
Lower volume ALWAYS gets perceived as lacking dynamics, because the bass is "missing"..

If I listen at -30dB, it's just enough to make out conversation in movies.
Which makes sense, since that's roughly 55dB SPL for the average volume of a movie (so just barely over background noise)

remember: 0 dB setting = 85dB average volume with 105dB peaks. (for Dolby and DTS surround sound)

If you find -27dB comfortable, that's not an issue. You're looking at 78dB PEAK volume.. (Explosions, gunshots, etc.)


When I watch movies by myself, I usually am at -25 dB, (80dB PEAK volume) because I have neighbors..
Before, when I had no neighbours, or didn't care about them, I would watch movies at -10dB (that's more than THREE times as loud!!)

-10dB is brutal, yet only HALF as loud as what you get in a Dolby theatre!




Just to clarify:
the update you are referring to, had an impact on the low-voltage rail in the power supply, affecting WHEN the relays switch to that.
It's not a limp mode, not a nanny mode..
it merely results in the device drawing a LOT less power when not needed.
And no, it doesn't mean that it cannot drive the speakers, then.

The relays reduces power consumption by the Hdmi and processing section.
If you turn up the volume to -20 or even higher, you will hear the relays switch again (CLACK) and the higher voltage rail gets switched to, so that the power supply can provide more power to the amplifier section.
It's a great design, because it limits power consumption in normal use by roughly 75% without actually costing you anything.


so, no, throwing money at a Denon device will NOT get you a better sound. They do NOT have better amplification (in fact, they have a weaker power supply than the Pioneer and will run out of power sooner if you drive a surround system..)
Of course, we have the Denon brand influencer in our mids, who cannot and never will shut up with his aggressive brand marketing..
But why rely on one very loud person just because they scream the loudest?!

I have had my LX505 for 3 years now, too. And never had any issues.
My B&W floorstanders dip down to 3 Ohms and would be rated as 4 Ohms speakers.. (but we all know NEVER to set ANY receiver to 4 Ohm mode anyways, because that simply limits the output power in order to comply with the bureacrats rules..) They are also ran as fullrange to aide the subwoofer, because it sounded the best that way.

And most other people with that receiver have never had issues either.
I don't believe that your speakers are a problem here.
If you did the room correction measurement, then what you need to do is find the volume that works best for you, in your room, etc.

Keep in mind that at -20dB, the receiver will barely use 10 Watts, if at all.
Most of the power draw is from the HDMI board and processing. You will never even see a power spike in a measurement device, because the audio section is basically asleep.

 

[popej]

throwing money at a Denon device will NOT get you a better sound.

Denon with Audyssey offers Dynamic EQ, which deals with ear characteristics you have presented. So it sounds good at lower volumes. But if you use Dirac on Denon, then you are back to problem.

 

[EWL5]

Denon with Audyssey offers Dynamic EQ, which deals with ear characteristics you have presented. So it sounds good at lower volumes. But if you use Dirac on Denon, then you are back to problem.

I must admit Audyssey is a nice "default RC" in an AVR if you choose not to pay for Dirac. After years of running MCACC on multiple Pioneer Elite's, I'm sure it's possible to get a similar sound on a Denon but I do recommend paying for at least the $20 app if for nothing else, to get rid of that dreaded Mid-Range Compensation (MRC)!

I paid for the Audyssey app and ended up paying for Dirac anyway to see what all the hype was about and haven't looked back since!

 

[vitola231]

I still don't understand the problem, to be honest..
When I listen to music, SACD, Tidal, Vinyl Records, etc. then I have the volume at -30 to -20 dB on the Receiver.

Your test doesn't appear to have shown any issues with the receiver, rather than you simply wanting to get rid of the device.
You describe the sound to be lacking in dynamics. That's a very simple explanation: higher SPL willr esult in PERCEIVED higher dynamics. Because our ears do NOT have a linear frequency response.
this graph shows you very nicely what WHY old stereo amplifiers had a LOUDNESS button.
If you listen at a low volume (10-30 phons), then the bass would need to play at around 80-90 phons to be PERCEIVED as equally loud as the midrange!

The louder you crank the system, the more LINEAR the whole thing sounds. (but you STILL are less sensitive to lower frequencies. Which is WHY all setups always include a BASS SHELF, with the bass slightly elevated compared to the mids and treble. )

You also see why even a TINY bit louder always results in a "better sound", because we simply perceive it as more linear sounding, then.
Lower volume ALWAYS gets perceived as lacking dynamics, because the bass is "missing"..
View attachment 509093

If I listen at -30dB, it's just enough to make out conversation in movies.
Which makes sense, since that's roughly 55dB SPL for the average volume of a movie (so just barely over background noise)

remember: 0 dB setting = 85dB average volume with 105dB peaks. (for Dolby and DTS surround sound)

If you find -27dB comfortable, that's not an issue. You're looking at 78dB PEAK volume.. (Explosions, gunshots, etc.)


When I watch movies by myself, I usually am at -25 dB, (80dB PEAK volume) because I have neighbors..
Before, when I had no neighbours, or didn't care about them, I would watch movies at -10dB (that's more than THREE times as loud!!)

-10dB is brutal, yet only HALF as loud as what you get in a Dolby theatre!




Just to clarify:
the update you are referring to, had an impact on the low-voltage rail in the power supply, affecting WHEN the relays switch to that.
It's not a limp mode, not a nanny mode..
it merely results in the device drawing a LOT less power when not needed.
And no, it doesn't mean that it cannot drive the speakers, then.

The relays reduces power consumption by the Hdmi and processing section.
If you turn up the volume to -20 or even higher, you will hear the relays switch again (CLACK) and the higher voltage rail gets switched to, so that the power supply can provide more power to the amplifier section.
It's a great design, because it limits power consumption in normal use by roughly 75% without actually costing you anything.


so, no, throwing money at a Denon device will NOT get you a better sound. They do NOT have better amplification (in fact, they have a weaker power supply than the Pioneer and will run out of power sooner if you drive a surround system..)
Of course, we have the Denon brand influencer in our mids, who cannot and never will shut up with his aggressive brand marketing..
But why rely on one very loud person just because they scream the loudest?!

I have had my LX505 for 3 years now, too. And never had any issues.
My B&W floorstanders dip down to 3 Ohms and would be rated as 4 Ohms speakers.. (but we all know NEVER to set ANY receiver to 4 Ohm mode anyways, because that simply limits the output power in order to comply with the bureacrats rules..) They are also ran as fullrange to aide the subwoofer, because it sounded the best that way.

And most other people with that receiver have never had issues either.
I don't believe that your speakers are a problem here.
If you did the room correction measurement, then what you need to do is find the volume that works best for you, in your room, etc.

Keep in mind that at -20dB, the receiver will barely use 10 Watts, if at all.
Most of the power draw is from the HDMI board and processing. You will never even see a power spike in a measurement device, because the audio section is basically asleep.

On the first unit it was very specific, first three days sound was much louder or dynamic from both tv and bluray then suddenly much lower and less dynamic. On the second unit it was like that out of the box. Another way I can say this is maybe the sound was exciting, at -35 it was exciting, immersive then it wasn't and volume was around -20. The sound was still good but like the sound was stuck in the speakers. Regardless there was a very specific deterioration. Sorry, like I said I wanted to keep it.

 

[EWL5]

On the first unit it was very specific, first three days sound was much louder or dynamic from both tv and bluray then suddenly much lower and less dynamic. On the second unit it was like that out of the box. Another way I can say this is maybe the sound was exciting, at -35 it was exciting, immersive then it wasn't and volume was around -20. The sound was still good but like the sound was stuck in the speakers. Regardless there was a very specific deterioration. Sorry, like I said I wanted to keep it.

Your symptoms are eerily similar to what dlaloum went through on his DRX 3.4.

Supposedly unplugging the unit should resolve it, as Amir and others found. I think it is on a strict temperature override and that's why unplugging normally works.

 

[vitola231]

Your symptoms are eerily similar to what dlaloum went through on his DRX 3.4.

Problem is it's like getting one bite of the best thing you ever tasted then it's gone. For my ears or maybe my speakers man that thing sounded great, even before room correction it sounded great. Who knows though, maybe they all sound great now and it's improvements in the processing. It's not like back in the day where you had a tape cassette, pre amp and amp and nothing determined the sound other than the components ( and the giant EQ's we all had)

 

[EWL5]

Problem is it's like getting one bite of the best thing you ever tasted then it's gone. For my ears or maybe my speakers man that thing sounded great, even before room correction it sounded great. Who knows though, maybe they all sound great now and it's improvements in the processing. It's not like back in the day where you had a tape cassette, pre amp and amp and nothing determined the sound other than the components ( and the giant EQ's we all had)

They were definitely better built back then. These days, parts are designed to fail just outside of the warranty period!

 

[MbphotoX]

Problem is it's like getting one bite of the best thing you ever tasted then it's gone. For my ears or maybe my speakers man that thing sounded great, even before room correction it sounded great. Who knows though, maybe they all sound great now and it's improvements in the processing. It's not like back in the day where you had a tape cassette, pre amp and amp and nothing determined the sound other than the components ( and the giant EQ's we all had)

your amplifier shouldn't "sound" at all, mate.. it's all in the source material, the speakers, and the room.
Unless the amplifier is broken, it does not affect the sound.

Now, did you try unplugging the power cord and plugging it back in?
(would be super weird if that works, but who knows..)


I don't think I can follow, by the way..
Mine needed -20 dB to sound "loud and dynamic" LONG before the update was even released.

to me, this sounds like a bad case of imaginary issues..

so, best will be if you just bite the bullet and spend 3-4 grand on a Denon.. it will most certainly sound much better and much more dynamic!
(I mean, with that price tag, it cannot NOT sound much better, right?!)

Your brain will do the rest, expectation bias and all.

Luckily, the Denon never had that kind of FUD spread about it, so you will be safe.

 

[vitola231]

They were definitely better built back then. These days, parts are designed to fail just outside of the warranty period!

It's a bit of a funny thing, todays receivers do a lot of stuff in one box which has tones of advantages but a failed or outdated HDMI board basically ruins what is a great unit. You would think separates would be the thing now, mind you who wants a giant rack nowadays. I mean they could build an Atmos extractor where it sends standard surround to your receiver through HDMI but it handles the two or four atmos speakers . You could have a unit that only does HDMI switching, a unit that does processing, a receiver that only does all the music streaming etc and an amplifier or multiple amplifiers or active speakers. That way if any of the processing or switching changes or fails you can just upgrade the one part kind of like pro audio racks (or euro racks), really all this stuff is so small it could be in something resembling a receiver but with an interface in the front and card slots in the back. I look at some of those older flagship receivers I had pictured and they have nice amplifier sections but are being sold off because they are outdated.

 

[vitola231]

your amplifier shouldn't "sound" at all, mate.. it's all in the source material, the speakers, and the room.
Unless the amplifier is broken, it does not affect the sound.

Now, did you try unplugging the power cord and plugging it back in?
(would be super weird if that works, but who knows..)


I don't think I can follow, by the way..
Mine needed -20 dB to sound "loud and dynamic" LONG before the update was even released.

to me, this sounds like a bad case of imaginary issues..

so, best will be if you just bite the bullet and spend 3-4 grand on a Denon.. it will most certainly sound much better and much more dynamic!
(I mean, with that price tag, it cannot NOT sound much better, right?!)

Your brain will do the rest, expectation bias and all.

Luckily, the Denon never had that kind of FUD spread about it, so you will be safe.

wow, no reason to be insulting, I have nothing against the unit. I wasn't here to sling mud or offend anybody, it's literally just a chunk of electronics.

 

[EWL5]

wow, no reason to be insulting, I have nothing against the unit. I wasn't here to sling mud or offend anybody, it's literally just a chunk of electronics.

Yeah, it's an odd post from someone who was initially trying to help you. I've already "tuned him out" as they say.

He accuses me of being a Denon schill but I haven't stooped to insults and have actually offered multiple options. It's just the price we pay for posts by anonymous people I guess.

 

[Power Pop 23]

wow, no reason to be insulting, I have nothing against the unit. I wasn't here to sling mud or offend anybody, it's literally just a chunk of electronics.

Consider yourself initiated - for example, see posts beginning at #943

Welcome to the 'club'.

 

[vitola231]

Consider yourself initiated - for example, see posts beginning at #943

Welcome to the 'club'.

It's the audio equivalent to tire or oil threads in the automotive forums

 

[MbphotoX]

Funny how people on the Internet always choose to filter out all the important things and distill everything down to the stuff that allows them to feel "attacked" and "hurt" or whatever.

I tried to help you multiple times, and all I got was the feeling that you don't want to be helped at all. You made up your mind, and no wonder with someone so actively manipulating you as EWL5.
He's posted in this thread more times than ANYBODY who actually owns the receiver this thread is about.
He has never even USED that receiver. Yet, for some weird reason, he cannot stay away from this thread, to spread FUD and direct people towards Denon.

It would be utterly amusing if it weren't so goddamn infuriating to witness.

 

[Mort]

It would be utterly amusing if it weren't so goddamn infuriating to witness.

Funny how people on the Internet always choose to filter out all the important things and distill everything down to the stuff that allows them to feel "attacked" and "hurt" or whatever.

Pot. Kettle.