Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[buz]

I don't listen all that loud (living in a condo) but my lx505 delivers plenty volume though my kef R3 roughly 4m away. I don't think I've gone louder than -20db and it has never shown volume drops...

 

[buz]

Also another thought, I got mine for 900 during black Friday, at point it becomes the by far cheapest dirac pre pro and in that role even has decent SINAD, no?

 

[abdo123]

Like what is the threshold for the timer wattage wise?

Would it go into protection if you pull 5 watts of power continuously for 35 seconds?

I would be okay with it if the threshold is reasonable. 40 watts is 100dBSPL at 1 meter for typical bookshelves, it’s a decent threshold.

 

[Doodski]

I would be okay with it if the threshold is reasonable. 40 watts is 100dBSPL at 1 meter for typical bookshelves, it’s a decent threshold.

No, it's not a decent nanny... It's poor build and then putting on a nanny minder.

 

[amirm]

Like what is the threshold for the timer wattage wise?

Would it go into protection if you pull 5 watts of power continuously for 35 seconds?

I would be okay with it if the threshold is reasonable. 40 watts is 100dBSPL at 1 meter for typical bookshelves, it’s a decent threshold.

You can have 20 watts all day long. It is power over that which triggers the timer.

 

[TonyJZX]

confounding puzzling results

i can forget about the old 1990s styling and the choice of a red dotmatrix display and that proud "ELITE" badge and the old analog connects... in the same way a flagship product throws in the kitchen sink "just in case".. but they may as well just have made it a pre/pro from the start and not bothered with the pretense.

I do get that amp power requirements have been toned down from the 1990s when they expected max continuous power on all channels at all times as an unrealistic goal but this is highly suspect... like surely the engineers would know that under any kind of 3rd party testing their deliberate design would be found out... like Audi VW's emissions thing?

I personally do not expect any modern unit to output their stated power on all channels at all times but I do expect them to 'steer' rated power to any two channels when needed... is this not an expected outcome? Obviously not to Pioneer.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

confounding puzzling results

i can forget about the old 1990s styling and the choice of a red dotmatrix display and that proud "ELITE" badge and the old analog connects... in the same way a flagship product throws in the kitchen sink "just in case".. but they may as well just have made it a pre/pro from the start and not bothered with the pretense.

I do get that amp power requirements have been toned down from the 1990s when they expected max continuous power on all channels at all times as an unrealistic goal but this is highly suspect... like surely the engineers would know that under any kind of 3rd party testing their deliberate design would be found out... like Audi VW's emissions thing?

I personally do not expect any modern unit to output their stated power on all channels at all times but I do expect them to 'steer' rated power to any two channels when needed... is this not an expected outcome? Obviously not to Pioneer.

I just think they shouldn't lie about it.

 

[TonyJZX]

Amplification

– Channels: 9 – Amplification Type: Direct Energy – 230 W/ch: 6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 10 %, 1ch Driven – 120 W/ch: 8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, THD 0.08 %, 2ch Driven FTC

would the FTC care about the fact it can only sustain that power for a limited time???

i mean that's the whole premise behind PMPO

 

[batfunk]

I had a Pioneer Vsx-924 from 2014(?).One day, it shut down in security mode, i had to bring it back to Pioneer maintenance. I never knew why, i never exceeded 80 db with my 5.1 setup.
Now, i Know

 

[dlaloum]

Is the power limiter a real issue under intended use?

The amp is identical on the Pip LX505, Onkyo RZ50 and Integra DRX5.4 (and the slightly less powerful models down behave similarly)

There are no reports of the "nanny circuit" kicking in, in actual use. (from following the various forum threads on them for the last 12+ months)

They also tend to run quite cool - cooler than the equivalent Denon's, or previous generations from the Pio/Onkyo stable.

This is exactly the same behaviour that Amir measured on the Onkyo RZ50 review - and the measurements are very very closely aligned between the two (no surprise as they are prime examples of badge engineering - well nigh identical AVR's)

 

[dlaloum]

If the behavior shown is "thermal throttling", why doesn't the fan come on before it happens?

It's not thermal throttling - you can monitor the thermals and fan via the web interface - this is some sort of pre-emptive protection circuit that has been set to too sensitive a level.

In actual use, no one is reporting the throttling issue - and from personal experience, they run cool.

 

[dlaloum]

The typical sound is not constant level, perhaps every dip below some threshold resets the timer and it’s not really an issue with real audio material and listening levels, even with inefficient speakers? Continuous output above 44W for 35 seconds is not very realistic, but perhaps not impossible.

On an inefficient 86db/wm speaker 44W continuous would be circa 102db @ 1m - so around 100db continuous at the MLP

"reference" level is 85db continuous with peaks reaching an additional 20db to 105db.... this AVR would easily provide reference level continuously, with plentiful reserves well beyond the required peak levels (as peak levels are never going to be maintained continously for 30+ seconds).

It is a design decision... one many of us consider flawed - but not one that should be focused on so heavily - as in real life, it just is not an issue.

 

[dlaloum]

This review sort of hits home since I'm running a similar Pioneer VSX-LX503 as a Dolby Atmos processor, feeding HDMI to it from my Apple TV4K and Sony Bravia 65X90J TV via eARC. I've always been pleased with the sound, having always used a combination of outboard amplifiers and active speakers and subs via the pre-outs. I believe it's circa 2019 and I bought it used for about $300. (I know, crazy.)

There appear to be key differences between the two AVRs, key among them that the 503 lacks DIRAC, but with the 503 supposedly sporting an AK4458 384 KHz/32-bit DAC, so that's a good thing. I've always wondered whether the still-idling built-in power amps were compromising the pre-outs. Hopefully they share the trait of doing no harm like the 505, but who knows? If they do cause issues, I'm blissfully unaware.

Any time I run pink noise through the 503, via analog, HDMI, Bluetooth or WiFi from my iPad, Apple TV4K or any other source I've tried it'll shut down after a while, which is really aggravating. Not after 35 seconds but after many minutes of operating at moderate levels, used only as a processor with no speaker load on the amplifiers (at about "-25dB" on the Pioneer's front panel display.) I recently added the Dolby Atmos-compatible test app to AudioTools and that app automatically pauses any test signals for a few seconds every so often, and that tricks the Pioneer into staying powered up. I don't "think" the 503 has ever shut down under normal use, but the Sony TV has more mysterious shutdowns with accompanying reboot requirements than any other electronic device I've ever encountered. Sony once apparently sent a firmware update via local over-the-air broadcast TV streams (Portland, OR is heavily into ATSC 3.0 NextGen TV) that crippled any audio between the Sony and the Pioneer until I unplugged both units from the wall and plugged them back in. Fun times. I lay that episode at the feet of Sony.

It is clear that the protection circuits are not based on the actual state of the amp, but some sort of calculation based on the signal level and time period...

 

[dlaloum]

Like what is the threshold for the timer wattage wise?

Would it go into protection if you pull 5 watts of power continuously for 35 seconds?

I would be okay with it if the threshold is reasonable. 40 watts is 100dBSPL at 1 meter for typical bookshelves, it’s a decent threshold.

No it can run at substantially more than 5W continuous... without triggering - and yes the thresholds are ample for all real life situations.

 

[Krobar]

This looks like a much better RCA prepro than the new gen Denon/Marantz receivers.

 

[dlaloum]

This looks like a much better RCA prepro than the new gen Denon/Marantz receivers.

I use my closely related Integra that way, with external amps - using internal amps for surround only. Very happy with the result.

 

[abdo123]

No it can run at substantially more than 5W continuous... without triggering - and yes the thresholds are ample for all real life situations.

This is a 1700$ receiver, 40W is acceptable but 20W is a bit on the low side.

I don’t expect people to buy this for a small living room.

 

[respice finem]

It's not thermal throttling - you can monitor the thermals and fan via the web interface - this is some sort of pre-emptive protection circuit that has been set to too sensitive a level.

In actual use, no one is reporting the throttling issue - and from personal experience, they run cool.

So, a firmware update should be able to fix the issue?

 

[dlaloum]

This is a 1700$ receiver, 40W is acceptable but 20W is a bit on the low side.

I don’t expect people to buy this for a small living room.

As I pointed out earlier - even with inefficient power hungry 86db SPL /wm speakers - you can easily support reference level SPL's in a large room without the protection triggering, and with plenty of headroom... Reference is 85db - you can do the sums!

Even if you say you want to rung at a base continuous SPL level of 95db at MLP (that would be ridiculously/ dangerously loud) - you would still have enough peak capability to go to the amps max rated output (without triggering protection) - and if that is not enough - then you should be looking to external amps. It is a 120W @ 8ohm amp basically.

I run 440W@8ohm monster amps, but they never get beyond 5W continuous in my large open plan living space, and peak levels almost never get past 16W ... normal continuous/rms/average listening levels in my space are 75db.

 

[dlaloum]

So, a firmware update should be able to fix the issue?

Depends on how they implemented it I guess! - and whether the kerfuffle on ASR with regards to the Pio/Onkyo/Integra nanny circuits, is sufficient to cause marketing concerns for the company... which I doubt. - there are no reported instances of this happening in the "real world" (ie away from a lab measurement bench test).