Pioneer PL-50L II Background Noise Issues - Newbie Seeking Setup Advice

[longts]

Hi everyone!

I recently started my analogue journey after being fully digital (following ASR recommendations). While I was initially sceptical about vinyl due to distortion concerns, I fell in love with the vintage aesthetics and the mesmerising experience of watching records spin - it's incredibly relaxing for both my ears and eyes.

Current Setup:
- Started with: Technics SL-1300 + Technics 270C cartridge (110$)+ Fosi Box X5
- Just added: Pioneer PL-50L II (original S-tonearm, no-name Pioneer cartridge) (400$)
- Chain: Turntable → Fosi Box X5 (38dB gain) → Topping Pre90 → 2x Topping LA90D (mono, high gain) → KEF R3

The Issue:
I can only hear the noise if I stop and place my ear close to the tweeter. The Pioneer has a slightly higher background noise than the SL-1300. With the Pioneer connected (even when I turned off the TT), I can hear a minimal noise through the tweeters that's a little louder than what I get with the Technics. I've cleaned all RCA connections and properly grounded both turntables with Fosi X5 ground point. With my digital chain, I never heard it.

My Questions:

1. **Background Noise:** Why would a higher-end model like the Pioneer have more noise than the SL-1300? Do you have any suggestions for reducing it?

2. **Power Conditioning:** Both turntables are 100V Japanese models, so I'm using an isolation transformer for our 230V/50Hz Vietnamese power. I've heard claims about "dirty power" affecting analogue setups here, though I never noticed issues with my digital gear (Wiim, MiniDSP Flex). Do I need power conditioning for turntables?

3. **Cartridge Upgrade:** Planning to upgrade the Pioneer's cartridge. Local used options:
- Nagaoka MP-500: $370
- Ortofon 2M Black: $300
- Saec 1C: (price TBD)
- Ortofon 2M Blue: $100
- Denon DL-103: $130

What cartridge specs should I prioritise for my system/tonearm (Pioneer) combo?

4. **Phono Stage:** Is it Worth upgrading from the Fosi Box X5 to something like the Cambridge Alva Solo? I saw someone say that Fosi doesn't have the filter function!! I like Cambridge, but I’m not sure about it.

I'm only one week into vinyl, so any guidance from experienced members would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[longts]

No name pionner cartridge

 

[ReDFoX]

No name pionner cartridge

I highly suggest you to look at Audio Technica's AT-VM95 line. AFAIK, they share the same body and you can basically start with conical and upgrade to ML/Shibata later
TT shouldn't generate a noise on its own, only transmit mains hum if grounding/shielding was done poorly

 

[DVDdoug]

The Issue:
I can only hear the noise if I stop and place my ear close to the tweeter.

Perfect! If you can't hear the noise under normal listening conditions there's nothing to complain about. ALL analog active electronics generate SOME noise and a high-gain preamp amplifies it. And usually once the stylus is in the groove, surface noise from the record dominates anyway.

Once you have a decent setup, the record itself us usually the weak link in every way.

1. **Background Noise:** Why would a higher-end model like the Pioneer have more noise than the SL-1300? Do you have any suggestions for reducing it?

That's strange. Most of the noise should be coming from the preamp. Sometimes the cartridge can pick-up power line hum and that can depend on the cartridge, turntable, or from the location of the turntable (or from the preamp) but you're not hearing power-line hum from the tweeter.

2. **Power Conditioning:** Both turntables are 100V Japanese models, so I'm using an isolation transformer for our 230V/50Hz Vietnamese power. I've heard claims about "dirty power" affecting analogue setups here, though I never noticed issues with my digital gear (Wiim, MiniDSP Flex). Do I need power conditioning for turntables?

Nose from the power line is unusual. Sometimes you can get 50/60Hz hum, or ground loop hum but that's the power line frequency so a filter won't help. And if you've got power line noise getting in, a conditioner/filter may or may not help. ...And you're not complaining about noise anyway.

3. **Cartridge Upgrade:** Planning to upgrade the Pioneer's cartridge. Local used options:
- Nagaoka MP-500: $370
- Ortofon 2M Black: $300
- Saec 1C: (price TBD)
- Ortofon 2M Blue: $100
- Denon DL-103: $130

What cartridge specs should I prioritise for my system/tonearm (Pioneer) combo?

I can't help with choosing/upgrading but the biggest difference will be frequency response. And that's tricky unless you have measurements for both cartridges using the same test record, or if you are comparing frequency response curves from the same manufacturer.

Capacitance loading, which comes from the wiring in the turntable, the cables to the preamp, and the preamp will affect high frequencies and the total capacitance is rarely known. Usually the cartridge recommends a capacitance load (and 47k resistance) and there is an optimum... The capacitance can be too high or too low. Some preamps have variable capacitance.

And again, the frequency response on the records themselves varies too.

The good news is that you can tweak frequency response with tone controls or EQ.

And some cartridges "track" better than others which means less tracking distortion on "hard to track" records.

Local used options:

Usually if you buy a used cartridge you should replace the stylus so you may not be saving any money.

4. **Phono Stage:** Is it Worth upgrading from the Fosi Box X5 to something like the Cambridge Alva Solo? I saw someone say that Fosi doesn't have the filter function!! I like Cambridge, but I’m not sure about it.

Some phono preamps have more noise than others. There can also be variations in frequency response (which is really variations in the RIAA EQ). But again, the records are usually the weak link.

A rumble filter (which I don't think the Cambridge has either) can filter-out subsonic record warp that can make your woofer "flop around" or it can sometimes push your amplifier into clipping with subsonics that you can't hear (but you can hear the distortion).

 

[davmol]

I'm fairly new to the vinyl medium as well and an currently running a Project Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, through a Fosi Box X5, line-in to a WiiM Ultra, and out to Fosi V3 Mono amps. Background noise is not audible when playing but if I turn up close to max and listen closely to the speaker there is a small amount of hiss. Note that I don't listen to much music where there are silent breaks.

Prior to this setup I had used phono stages on a Yamaha AS-301 amp, the WiiM ultra and the Fosi Box X2, and I had used line-in on the Yam and am Aiyima 07 Max. Each of these had grounding issues, or loud background noise / hiss, or electrical interference via line in and phono. It is just the nature of vinyl, it is a flawed medium, but the benefits outweigh the negatives for me, some of which you mentioned in your original post.

Like DVDdoug said, if all you can hear is a slight hiss, and it's not audible when playing, then enjoy the music. Also if you're not a analog purist then look into a Parks Audio Waxwing phono stage. It's on my list for next year

 

[JeremyFife]

Agree with @DVDdoug

I'd add that it is incredibly easy to spend money on a vinyl setup, often without any real benefit. It's very clear with electronics - measures well or does not - but vinyl seems to cling on to unsubstantiated opinion.
Settle into your system: don't make any changes for a while. If you must upgrade the cartridge (often a sensible idea) then I'd support the suggestion to go for an Audio Technica AT-VM95 body. The Nude Elliptical (EN) stylus is a decent starting point, and offers an upgrade path if you feel the need. The more basic (cheaper) Elliptical stylus is good too.

Then: play records, enjoy music, look at the album artwork.
If, after a few months, you are playing more vinyl and enjoying the experience then think about your system again. You may well find that the convenience of digital (we won't talk about the sound quality) has won out and you just don't spin disks as much as you thought you would ...

 

[raindance]

Analog is noisy. The signal to nose ratio for a phono stage is much, much worse than for a line level input. If you have to put your ear against the speaker to hear it, then you are doing well.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I need to out my ear into the speaker, and even then it is difficult to notice if my vinyl system on on or off..
Until the needle hits the groove,, then grove noise appears… luckily groove noise etc is not noticeable at listening position