PI2AES Digital Audio Shield for the Raspberry PI

[odessamarin]

@johan
I think you get me wrong at some point regarding battery use. All what I said is that I do like sound more when Boards Alllo and Pi2AES powered from battery and separately from RPi. Nowhere I said that lead battery is better than li-ion.. seems you misunderstood. I said battery powered boards sounds to me better then PS powered. Now.. if also this is wrong form your engineer point of view, could you please explain why.

@Veri and all other haters of subjective opinion
At least I did and tried to be as blind as possible. If you don't like how I described difference, you can ignore it. But why to complain if I blindly compared two sounds. And find sound from A better then sound from B. I was able to blindly, in different songs identify sound A and B. Nothing more. Ignore the rest. The only way I see you can disagree is that you say I am cheating here. Well, without referee here it will always be my word against yours. The only, point is why should I do this? I pay for both.. Actually for Allo I payed more and really would be happy to have opposite impression.
I intentionally did it blind, first of all, to answer to myself is it just impression or in unknown conditions I can distinguish two boards.
I am the first who wait for the measurements tools and protocols to objectively estimate human perception and objectively analyze properties that important in soundstage reconstruction. From my opinion, at the moment, the only jitter measurement can't predict final sound. Sorry. Precise phase transients and correlation between stereo channels need to be measured here. How to do this I don’t know. Before we have this type of nmeasurement, I think it’s not that bad at the end, if after available measurement results here we may have few, at least blind tests for different products. There is nothing wrong with this. Agree, our brain can't give you graphs and numbers back. However, if it can say which sound it prefer, can reliably (10 times in a row from different tracks good enough for me) distinguish this sound from other. Why should we ignore these results? Just because you don't like?

I have no conflict of interests and very open for opinions and advices to mprove and do more tests.

Further , Odessa hears a difference in battery chemistry .

ahh.. again.. WHERE I say about chemistry?!

 

[Michael Kelly]

Hi Michael

I am trying to arrange for a double blind test for one of my products and from my understanding of what a blind test is , Odessa post... is anything but a blind test .

Further , Odessa hears a difference in battery chemistry .

Thats why he likes PI2AES better , he has bionic hearing .

A quick google search turned up this chart of impedance of LiFePo (aka Lithium Polymer) versus lead acid. I make no judgement on which is better, but there clearly are differences between battery chemistry.

 

[Krunok]

A quick google search turned up this chart of impedance of LiFePo (aka Lithium Polymer) versus lead acid. I make no judgement on which is better, but there clearly are differences between battery chemistry.

View attachment 29506

Sure, they are different, but I'm failing to see how is that relevant to this discussion..?

 

[Krunok]

@johan
Precise phase transients and correlation between stereo channels need to be measured here. How to do this I don’t know.

Do you care to explain what "phase transients and correlation between stereo channels" actualy means for you?

 

[odessamarin]

Do you care to explain what "phase transients and correlation between stereo channels" actualy means for you?

Our brain use temporal diferance in sound between left and right ears to reconstruct space (3D) form stereo (2D) information.
Whatever you call this temporal propartyes and paramiters to measure.. It is good form me. But I'd like to have tolls able to measure it.
- Phase lag between channles
- Phase correlaltion
- spectral temporal dependencies between channles
.. anythiung that may fit better here.

but defenitally not jitter only. Not work for me.
also simple sin wave to demonstre chanel sinchrony somehow also not enough.

If ask how I would do this.. Take ADC with mHz resolution. Sample AES/Spdif analog (digital) signal from board. Reconstruct (backconvert it) in WAV and compare with referance WAV (source file). This system may cost around 20k at least. But you will have an unswer how bit-perfect are you.

 

[Krunok]

Our brain use temporal diferance in sound between left and right ears to reconstruct space (3D) form stereo (2D) information.
Whatever you call this temporal propartyes and paramiters to measure.. It is good form me. But I'd like to have tolls able to measure it.
- Phase lag between channles
- Phase correlaltion
- spectral temporal dependencies between channles
.. anythiung that may fit better here.

but defenitally not jitter only. Not work for me.
also simple sin wave to demonstre chanel sinchrony somehow also not enough.

Sure.. I think we should also measure warp signature differences between channels. You have no idea what you are talking about, right?

 

[odessamarin]

Sure.. I think we should also measure warp signature differences between channels. You have no idea what you are talking about, right?

You had this answer before asking me.. Right? )
Happy you have an idea.. (hopefully)

 

[Nango]

Our brain use temporal diferance in sound between left and right ears to reconstruct space (3D) form stereo (2D) information.

"Our brain ...." ... that is certainly the worsest approach to hifi and to participation in ASR. There is nothing I would rely less than on my senses to evaluate hifi ...... not during daytime, not during nighttime, not while in bad mood, not while euphoric, etc., etc., etc .......... Facts, facts, nothing but facts!!!!!

 

[Krunok]

You had this answer before asking me.. Right? )
Happy you have an idea.. (hopefully)

Instead of throwing randonly a bunch of untrelated terms you should really try to understand how S/PDIF protocol works before entering any discussion about it because many people here are very familiar with it. This is a good place to start.

 

[Michael Kelly]

"Our brain ...." ... that is certainly the worsest approach to hifi and to participation in ASR. There is nothing I would rely less than on my senses to evaluate hifi ...... not during daytime, not during nighttime, not while in bad mood, not while euforic, etc., etc., etc .......... Facts, facts, nothing but facts!!!!!

Does this imply that if you do rely on your brain to decide what you like you are not allowed to be a member of ASR? I hope that is not true.

 

[Nango]

Does this imply that if you do rely on your brain to decide what you like you are not allowed to be a member of ASR? I hope that is not true.

No, I meant, judging by "our brain" (I rather meant "senses") is the wrong approach to this forum.

 

[Krunok]

Does this imply that if you do rely on your brain to decide what you like you are not allowed to be a member of ASR? I hope that is not true.

If I were you I'm quite sure I wouldn't like someone here to vouch for my products with the arguments like the ones @odessamarin mentioned.

 

[Krunok]

No, I meant, judging by "our brain" (I rather meant "senses") is the wrong approach to this forum.

Don't worry, we all understood what you meant.

 

[odessamarin]

Instead of throwing randonly a bunch of untrelated terms you should really try to understand how S/PDIF protocol works before entering any discussion about it because many people here are very familiar with it. This is a good place to start.

i read about it already. don't worry. But thanks.
I would prefer from local experts any ideas why two digital sources I tested sound different. I tryed to put them as pssabal in the same condition as I could. Maybe better instead of this unconstructive critics (batery chemistry.. our brain..) have some discussions why is it? What could be wrong/differnet digital signal from two borads with good meaurements. As I say, I don't care which one sounds better. I have and keep all of them. For me important to undestand why is it so.

 

[johan]

From my opinion, at the moment, the only jitter measurement can't predict final sound.

OK we heard your opinion . Now keep it somewhere where its safe from logic or other people will pollute it .
This website is called Audio Science and not Audio Opinion

I am the first who wait for the measurements tools and protocols to objectively estimate human perception and objectively analyze properties that important in soundstage reconstruction.

Until then . your opinion will always be correct . Do you like Borsch (some type of soup very popular in easter europe)? The fact that YOU like it, means nothing to me (I hated the borsch my parents , long ago, made)

ahh.. again.. WHERE I say about chemistry?!

Seems your post 19 was edited 10 min ago...why you changed it ?

@Michael Kelly . You are a engineer , can you explain to me the nonsense chart of impedance ? Explain to me how that impedance influences digial output of a board that switches at 24Mhz ? Thats right..none.


I cannot believe we have this type of discussions on ASR. I would expect it on other forums not here.

 

[johan]

If I were you I'm quite sure I wouldn't like someone here to vouch for my products with the arguments like the ones @odessamarin mentioned.

I second that.

 

[odessamarin]

If I were you I'm quite sure I wouldn't like someone here to vouch for my products with the arguments like the ones @odessamarin mentioned.

ok, I see my arguments step on too many toes here.
What I understend, here you would just prefer something like this?

Board A B
session 1 1 0
session 2 1 0
session 3 1 0
...
session n 1 0

1 - odessamarin prefer sound
0 - odessamarin no prefer sound
Done.


Is this what you want. And what I make wrong is just tryed to at least explain the main caracteristic in sound signature that help me to separate (blindly) two devices? Ok. How would you do this. You think it is easy to describe? Please tell me.

 

[odessamarin]

Seems your post 19 was edited 10 min ago...why you changed it ?

It was misstyped "you JUST DO DIT" I correcter to "you JUST DID IT".
Nothing about battery chemistry. While you did not answer my quetions, where did you get this battery staff from me. I never said it.
But for me it is classical example when someone don't have any practical arguments, pickups some irrelivant topic and go on with it.. Battery chemistry, borch, and so on. What is next? My nickname? Keep calm.

 

[johan]

Odessa ,

your arguments do not step on any toes. In fact you have no arguments just a strong opinion .

You have ideas on reconstruction of sound , jitter relating to sound , phases even on how to construct a 20K devices that will show you are correct .

Take ADC with mHz resolution. Sample AES/Spdif analog (digital) signal from board. Reconstruct (backconvert it) in WAV and compare with referance WAV (source file). This system may cost around 20k at least. But you will have an unswer how bit-perfect are you.

I would start right now to build it, but I am rather busy designing SPIDIF devices . Your opinion on borsh or spidif lacks any meaning .


PS. I grew up in Moldova so I am not trying to be insensitive or derogatory with the soup.

 

[odessamarin]

Your opinion on borsh or spidif lacks any meaning .

I have no opinion on borsh.. come on, you start it! (and I dont understand why)
I have no opinion in SPIDIF. I say how i would go for measurment there. Nothing more.
Really, could you stop this offtop please.
.. here I agree with you.
"I cannot believe we have this type of discussions on ASR. I would expect it on other forums not here."