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Phono preamp headroom - why?

The idea that the coils are able to absorb any power and affect compliance is a myth once you crunch the number, I'm afraid. Even if the coil is shorted, it is only able to absorb a fraction of a percent of the power stored in the moving mass of the cantilever itself alone every second, not even considering the mechanical compliance of the damping material the cantilever is mounted on. I'm constantly bombarded with questions regarding current-input/transimpedance MC stages that represent a very low impedance input and feature the claim that they are able to mechanically damp the system by absorbing its energy - simply not true. I will write this up and show my workings when I make all the points in my case against this, but have been aware of it since well before 2022.

If you're using the Miller effect in valve front end (lots of even order distortion), then you are exciting the distortion mechanism (non-linear gain) to generate the capacitance, which somewhat/entirely defeats the purpose. For valve devices, a transformer is mandatory for LOMC if you want an SNR higher that's approaching as low as 60dB (best noise I've measured on a valve input was 7nV/sqrtHz).
Transimpedance phono sections do not present the cartridge with a low impedance in the same way that a resistor might. This is why 'virtual ground' is used to describe the junction of the input resistance (the cartridge in this case) and the feedback resistor in an opamp circuit. The word 'virtual' means 'almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition'. Were it actually ground of course the opamp wouldn't amplify as the input signal would be shorted.

To emphasis added, this statement is false. It suggests that somehow phono cartridges are exempt from physical law. Any time you load a magnetic transducer you will affect how easily it is moved. This is why an alternator in a car takes considerably more energy to spin when its loaded.
 
Transimpedance phono sections do not present the cartridge with a low impedance in the same way that a resistor might. This is why 'virtual ground' is used to describe the junction of the input resistance (the cartridge in this case) and the feedback resistor in an opamp circuit. The word 'virtual' means 'almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition'. Were it actually ground of course the opamp wouldn't amplify as the input signal would be shorted.

To emphasis added, this statement is false. It suggests that somehow phono cartridges are exempt from physical law. Any time you load a magnetic transducer you will affect how easily it is moved. This is why an alternator in a car takes considerably more energy to spin when its loaded.
The statement is true in the same sense that I might say that the idea that a man flapping his arms up and down gives him the ability to create lift and fly is a myth.

Of course, it stands to reason that if you flap your arms you will create lift, but the effect is so negligible that it is meaningless in much the same way as the electrical power dissipated in a cartridge's coils/resistance is capable of changing the compliance by any real degree. The short-circuit/trans-impedance condition leads to the highest level of electrical power dissipation (and therefore mechanical resistance) since the system's resistance to current is minimised, and even then it is a tiny fraction of a percent compared to the mechanical power in the system.

Cartridge coils are most certainly not efficient transducers designed for maximum power extraction such as alternators. They are sensors optimised for tracking/bandwidth and linearity - much like acoustic loudspeaker drivers with eye-wateringly low power efficiencies.

This is the classic Audiophile intuition fallacy. It sounds plausible on the face of it, but mathematically it is negligible to the point of meaninglessness. I would highly recommend you do a little calculation at 5cm/s and compare this via mechanical compliance vs. the electrical dissipation of 500uV through a 10 ohm coil...

Take the Audio Technica AT33SA cartridge. It has an output of 0.4mV at 5cm/s cantilever velocity. This means that if we shorted the output with the lowest impedance possible (maximum mechanical resistance from the coils due to maximum electrical power absorption) we would get 16nW of power removed from the system.

If an object moving at 5cm/s is dissipating 16nW of power against an unknown force, we can easily work out the force to be 320nN (nanoNewtons).

Take a frequency of interest, say 100Hz, to find the excursion at 5cm/s (dynamic compliance is specified for the AT33SA at 100Hz), which gives us an RMS value of 76micrometres for a sinusoidal function.

So we now have 320nanoNewtowns and 76micrometres - translating to a resistive/dynamic compliance figure of 238 metres per Newton. The AT33SA give a figure for microcentimetres/dyne so let's convert, giving a figure of 238,000×10-6cm/dyne - you can see where this is going already with all the zeros.

Now, the AT33SA specs mechanical compliance as

10×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz)

So our electrical compliance is 23,800 times greater than the mechanical compliance... If we sum them together, we see that shorting the cartridge degrades reduces the compliance from 10×10-6cm/dyne to 9.99958×10-6cm/dyne - or something like a 0.004% change.

So yes, my sincere apologies to you old chap. You're quite right - a most substantial difference of one 250th of a percentage point...

This is why audio is in the miserable place it is right now. All of the above, perhaps bar the RMS excursion calculation, is A-level/high school mathematics (yours truly did mechanics at A-level and we did all of the above).
 
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When a cartridge is driving the virtual ground of a transimpedance input, its not driving a short. If it were, your argument falls apart.
 
When a cartridge is driving the virtual ground of a transimpedance input, its not driving a short. If it were, your argument falls apart.
It's driving/sees an effective short/zero-impedance as long as the amplifier is operating in its linear (intended operation) region... That's why it's called a 'virtual ground' - not connected to ground, but assumes ground potential when the amplifier isn't overloaded. Decreasing the load resistance increases the mechanical power absorption until it is entirely dissipated in the cartridge coil itself. If we go right back to your claim that the 120 ohm load changes the cartridge's compliance, we are looking at a percentage change of... 0.0003% in terms of overall compliance. I think I've made my point...

If you think my workings on the compliance claim are wrong, go right ahead and show us yours please. Otherwise, this exchange isn't going anywhere, so if there aren't any figures to discuss behind all of these assertions I'm calling it a day. These kinds of intuitive/innumerate/wishful thinking-based claims are all so very tiresome.

I will finish my piece on current-input loading and put the first draft on here as soon as I can for everyone else. There needs to be an online source that puts all this nonsense to rest.
 
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It's driving/sees an effective short/zero-impedance as long as the amplifier is operating in its linear (intended operation) region... That's why it's called a 'virtual ground' - not connected to ground, but assumes ground potential when the amplifier isn't overloaded. Decreasing the load resistance increases the mechanical power absorption until it is entirely dissipated in the cartridge coil itself. If we go right back to your claim that the 120 ohm load changes the cartridge's compliance, we are looking at a percentage change of... 0.0003% in terms of overall compliance. I think I've made my point...

If you think my workings on the compliance claim are wrong, go right ahead and show us yours please. Otherwise, this exchange isn't going anywhere, so if there aren't any figures to discuss behind all of these assertions I'm calling it a day. These kinds of intuitive/innumerate/wishful thinking-based claims are all so very tiresome.

I will finish my piece on current-input loading and put the first draft on here as soon as I can for everyone else. There needs to be an online source that puts all this nonsense to rest.
Jonathon Carr was the one who pointed this out to me (in person). Since he has designed some of the better LOMC cartridges available I took his word on it. But I can't argue with the math either. So what explanation do you have for loading affecting tonality?
 
Very interesting discussion. And thank you again @Michael Fidler for providing mathematical evidence that the loading myth is indeed a - often repeated - myth. See the Stereophile article I linked in post #121:

"Moncrieff suggested that proper loading reduces distortion—especially intermodulation distortion—perhaps by reducing the tendency of the stylus to flit about inside the record groove. Makes sense to me."

Yeah, "makes sense to me" is nice - but means nothing.

I think this happens too often still. Somebody invents a highly technical storyline for whatever purposes and this "idea" becomes a "truth" after being repeated unreflected a hundred times all over the internet. High end marketing works this way.

Now, if you can explain me scientifically how to - correctly - set antiskating azimuth and VTA, I would be a happy man ;-) But that would be another thread...
 
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So what explanation do you have for loading affecting tonality?

A charitable explanation would be that people are misinterpreting the slight/borderline imperceptible level changes of 1dB or so (going from 100x to 10x the coil resistance, or from 10x to 5x - for example) as differences in tonality.

A non-charitable explanation would simply be that they're changing a setting and believing that they're going to hear a difference (brighter/warmer/sweeter/hints of coconut - whatever is in vogue), and then confirming the prevailing opinion put about by the subjective tradition... Many such cases.
 
A charitable explanation would be that people are misinterpreting the slight/borderline imperceptible level changes of 1dB or so (going from 100x to 10x the coil resistance, or from 10x to 5x - for example) as differences in tonality.

A non-charitable explanation would simply be that they're changing a setting and believing that they're going to hear a difference (brighter/warmer/sweeter/hints of coconut - whatever is in vogue), and then confirming the prevailing opinion put about by the subjective tradition... Many such cases.
A level change is always a problem even if the frequency response is the same, I think we need 0.1dB if we want a really stringent test .

I can imagine that absolutely no lay person like myself consider that the level migth change due to settings that not explicitly says "gain" sensitivity et al :) and it's also not easy to predict the minute level change and compensate without the kind of competence you represent .

So i think it follows the same trend that plagues all other audio tests , not good enough controlls . Or even worse as the vinyl/riaa competent persons are in decline ?
 
A charitable explanation would be that people are misinterpreting the slight/borderline imperceptible level changes of 1dB or so (going from 100x to 10x the coil resistance, or from 10x to 5x - for example) as differences in tonality.

A non-charitable explanation would simply be that they're changing a setting and believing that they're going to hear a difference (brighter/warmer/sweeter/hints of coconut - whatever is in vogue), and then confirming the prevailing opinion put about by the subjective tradition... Many such cases.
Hm. We don't hear any difference with loading using our preamps unless the cartridge is loaded so low that the actual output drops.

But there are an awful lot of preamps out there that have loading provisions for LOMC cartridges. I don't know of any transimpedance examples, but of the regular variety this is common. Are you suggesting that the 'loading switch' is there merely for show rather than actually doing anything (like affecting the sound)? 'Cartridge loading' of LOMC cartridges is a myth IMO, but that's not the same as saying the loading resistor isn't doing something as we already discussed. But I get the impression that your opinion is that detuning the electrical resonance at the input of the phono section does nothing for the sound at all. Is that correct?
 
Hm. We don't hear any difference with loading using our preamps unless the cartridge is loaded so low that the actual output drops.

But there are an awful lot of preamps out there that have loading provisions for LOMC cartridges. I don't know of any transimpedance examples, but of the regular variety this is common. Are you suggesting that the 'loading switch' is there merely for show rather than actually doing anything (like affecting the sound)? 'Cartridge loading' of LOMC cartridges is a myth IMO, but that's not the same as saying the loading resistor isn't doing something as we already discussed. But I get the impression that your opinion is that detuning the electrical resonance at the input of the phono section does nothing for the sound at all. Is that correct?
The loading switch is easy to implement without any analogue design knowledge, so can be thrown in by anyone as a marketing point. Many cartridges specify a load impedance around ten times the coil resistance, initially for the purposes of using a matching transformer because valves have dreadfully limited gain and noise performance, but this has lead to the loading mythology for solid-state inputs where it should otherwise be fixed around 100-200 ohms with 470-1000pF to damp 8-30uH of inductive resonance. As stated before, variable loading causes small level changes that may or may not be perceived and misinterpreted.

The sound - too vague. Detuning the resonance of a LOMC cartridge doesn't affect the audio frequency response, distortion et al. on the front end in the audio band when suitable resistor and capacitor values are selected, but is highly desirable, if not mandatory for a well-designed MC input in service of preventing RF detection. The range of values are quite limited to do this, therefore a variable loading switch is undesirable as it will inevitably allow the user to either create an RF peak which will have to be compensated for in some highly compromising manner (such as a series resistor with Johnson noise or simply a low-cost IC input with a noise figure well in excess of 12dB against 500uV/10 ohms), or pull the level at the input down too low and reduce signal-to-noise ratio.

This is a very dull topic, and not really the theme of the thread, so I shall leave it there. Maybe a thread titled 'Variable low-output MC loading - marketing scam' would be better...
 
The sound - too vague. Detuning the resonance of a LOMC cartridge doesn't affect the audio frequency response, distortion et al. on the front end in the audio band when suitable resistor and capacitor values are selected, but is highly desirable, if not mandatory for a well-designed MC input in service of preventing RF detection. The range of values are quite limited to do this, therefore a variable loading switch is undesirable as it will inevitably allow the user to either create an RF peak which will have to be compensated for in some highly compromising manner (such as a series resistor with Johnson noise or simply a low-cost IC input with a noise figure well in excess of 12dB against 500uV/10 ohms), or pull the level at the input down too low and reduce signal-to-noise ratio.
That's pretty much the same as what we've found. We recommend our customers not add any loading for LOMC cartridges.
 
(
far from your pushed discussions..the use of ref 1k at 8cm , not a 3.54 etc, as we can see on the hungaron always seemed comfortable to me for the gain adjustment on acquisition num...
and it probably thought of this idea elsewhere... ;-)
)
 
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