Phono Cartridge Response Measurement Script

[Balle Clorin]

My bad, I thought this thread was for looking at using the script/website and debugging issues. Here is a "clean" run with physical adjustments only...no Puffin EQ.

You are right this is not the library thread! I confused myself, here and in the Fun thread we shouldvnot be so strict as in the Library “

The Hana looks a bit like the Ortofon top end rise., no AT bump which might be a relief for some.
Similar distortion too ( a bit high ) if I recall correctly,

I think you can post it in the library when you add the recommended info.
What I wonder about in the tracking, some sourced say it (elliptical) barely track 60um on the Ortofon record , but that may be a specimen outlayer

 

[Jimi Floyd]

You are right this is not the library thread! I confused myself, here and in the Fun thread we shouldvnot be so strict as in the Library “

The Hana looks a bit like the Ortofon top end rise., no AT bump which might be a relief for some.
Similar distortion too ( a bit high ) if I recall correctly,

I think you can post it in the library when you add the recommended info.
What I wonder about in the tracking, some sourced say it barely track 60um on the Ortofon record , but that may be a specimen outlayer

Yes, sorry everybody, I did the same mistake swapping threads in my mind. My bad.

 

[Thomas_A]

My bad, I thought this thread was for looking at using the script/website and debugging issues. Here is a "clean" run with physical adjustments only...no Puffin EQ.

I'm happy to add (or not add) the results to the library. Let me know if you want me to do that and/or what I need to do to add it. Note - one other point on this particular cartridge...I didn't have the Puffin logging turned on but I estimate that it has about 400-600 hrs of use on a high quality library. (min VG+ with most NM or M discs). I don't have a USB microscope to give you a good picture of the tip. One last point...in the Library thread, USER wrote a really nice guide for using the graphs to adjust your setup. The one adjustment/point that I didn't see much discussion on was VTA adjustments. That's one adjustment that I am currently playing with to see what type of impact it has on the results.

View attachment 528647

Regarding "adjustments" I think a standard setting is mounting and aligning the cartridge by standard "visual" methods and at nonimal loading and VTF. Additional graphs may be added for loading adjustments or to adjust azimuth/VTA/zenith/VTF etc. Whatever that gives significant effects.

 

[mash]

On adjustments...I did a minor cartridge/head shell alignment change (visual) to better align it to the VPI installation rig. My initial VTA adjustment was also visual but I then did some test adjustments based on measurements (I intend to pursue VTA adjustments further).

The Puffin only supports 200 ohm loading for MC cartridges (they say in their manual that using the Air setting is their recommended/better alternative to playing with load values).

On the Hana's tracking ability...I do have the Ortofon test record and tried a quick run of the Tracking tests. My cartridge made it through all of the test tracks but did exhibit some audible distortion (buzzing) on the 90 and 100um tracks. That's just testing with my ears...not sure if there is a way to test it graphically using the script and/or Web site.

 

[Thomas_A]

On adjustments...I only did a minor cartridge/head shell alignment change (visual) to better align it to the VPI installation rig. My initial VTA adjustment was also visual but I then did some test adjustments based on measurements (I intend to pursue VTA adjustments further).

Do you use vertical cut test track for VTA?

 

[Balle Clorin]

id exhibit some audible distortion (buzzing) on the 90 and 100um tracks. That's just testing with my ears...not sure if there is a way to test it graphically using the script and/or Web site.

Ears are just fine for the tracking tests. Good to hear that the Hana ML can do 80um! Any good cartridge should do at least 70um
If you want to measure it look visually on a Software like Visual Analyser) oscilloscopes XY plot of L vs R . It will not be a straight line( narrow oval) but deviation at top or bottom when mistracking, a FFT will show higher order distortion occuring, easy to see on the sinus curve form not looking smooth anymore

 

[mash]

Do you use vertical cut test track for VTA?

No, not yet. Checking the right vs left channel tracking first to see if anti skating adjustments are necessary...I hope not as adjusting anti-skating with the VPI is a pain and very inaccurate (done by twisting the lead wires at the plinth connector).

After that, I will play with the VTA track. I've never used it before. Any tips for using it as a tuning reference?

If you give a mouse a cookie.....

 

[Thomas_A]

No, not yet. Checking the right vs left channel tracking first to see if anti skating adjustments are necessary...I hope not as adjusting anti-skating with the VPI is a pain and very inaccurate (done by twisting the lead wires at the plinth connector).

After that, I will play with the VTA track. I've never used it before. Any tips for using it as a tuning reference?

If you give a mouse a cookie.....

With respect to anti-skating, there are other methods as well. Putting one of those cheaper scales on the side and letting the tonearm bump into it and read the force. Should be 10-15% of the tracking force.

VTA track; depends what track you are referring to. For modern records, the vertical cut 1 kHz (on CA-TRS1007 or AP test record) are some of the modern ones that can be used, finding the minimum distortion level. The so called IMD VTA track of the AP test record is cut laterally, and is not really what one wants.

Fun with vinyl measurements

One idea: not sure if it is possible or not, but is there a way to have Chat GPT come up with an "auto-centering" mechanism based on the polar plot? I'm wondering if that would make more test records usable.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Jimi Floyd]

Ears are just fine for the tracking tests. Good to hear that the Hana ML can do 80um! Any good cartridge should do at least 70um
If you want to measure it look visually on a Software like Visual Analyser) oscilloscopes XY plot of L vs R . It will not be a straight line( narrow oval) but deviation at top or bottom when mistracking, a FFT will show higher order distortion occuring, easy to see on the sinus curve form not looking smooth anymore

Talking about the tracking test on the Ortofon records, what's the common agreement (if any)? The test is tracking successfully with the STANDARD antiskating (the one used in music playing) or OPTIMIZED antiskating (increased, just right for this test)?

 

[Balle Clorin]

You may post both. Standard as recommended by arm/Tat should always be given. The highest modulation usually needs more AS , but will result in too much anti skate overall as even the most aggressive cut music records are max 60 or even less than 50. - some sources say- others like AT said 60-80 for audiophile pressings- Check AS force like Thomas said : balance the arm to float without touching anything, let the tip lean a gains a VTF scale turned on the side:::: it should read 10-15% of the VTF you use ( actually proportional sinus to your offset angle times arms length times the friction coefficient Or something forgot the exact formula, I posted it in the Fun thread I’d an anti skate post). Anyway I use 13% sine someone who did test wit side orcs meter found 15% to be the max.. most to arm designs seem to be 10-15% at least mine 4 are: SME V is 10%…
Post in thread 'Accepted Method for Anti-Skate Results'
https://audiokarma.org/forums/threads/accepted-method-for-anti-skate-results.1093553/post-18026546 BV

Antiskate force , what is yours

What numbers do you get? How did you set-up/calibrate the weighing scale for/in vertical operation?

audiokarma.org

With my arms recommended setting (which turn out to be 9-10% of VTF) my cartridge ATOC9MLii track 80um , it can do 90/100 at max AS, and does 70um with 0 antiskate