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Phono Cartridge Response Measurement Script

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Comparisons are here #45

All my laybacks are flat. For the XG-7001 I applied a "standard" EQ of 30Hz and 250Hz as I had it the biquads for it already, but it seems it should be just 250Hz for that one.
I also have a XG-7001 in case you guys want to see how it compares. I'd need that EQ for it.

I ordered it for the WF test track, but:

30L II - XG-7001 3kHz.png
30L II · Tacet Vinyl Check 3.15kHz.png
 
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I need to make the filter. This is another one that has a lot of modulation that get amplified when EQ is applied.
 

Thomas_A

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Isn't there information from the LP sleeve how the XG-7001 sweeps are cut, time-constants etc?
 

DSJR

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They sure didn't do any favors by not being consistent with reference to the plot grids in making it any easier to read. Below is 150pF and 350pF with the Ortofon TC-3000 sweep. The TC-3000 system didn't plot though - only gave amplitudes for 1, 5, 10, 12, 15, 18, and 20 kHz. Not positive that record could be used on a chart recorder as the sweep runs quite a bit faster than typical, but I haven't played with any.

It'd definitely odd to see FR impact below 1kHz from changing C. Granted, they never state what "higher load capacitance" actually is.

View attachment 261003
I recall the capacitance was 350pF total in the introduction to these tests (quite a few pages dedicated in the introduction). Whatever, I loved my V15VMR, finding it gave a truthful if smaller than the best, rendition of what is there in the grooves using trusted music sources and good digital comparisons (my pal was a mastering engineer and proved invaluable witjh knowledge and trusted source material back in the day when all this mattered...).
 

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But. . What?

I'm worried the issues with the Denon record (eccentricity?) will mask real issues with the turntable. I trust the Tacet more in that comparison, especially as I can get similar results with it in situations I am certain warrant them. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to get the results of the Tacet than the Denon. In fact I have not been able to find a comparable test record since. (I have tried over 10 new Tacets and they are junk!) However, I'll put more tests with the Denon record on queue.

Denon DP-400 · Tacet_ Vinyl Check.png
WF_SONY.png
 
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Isn't there information from the LP sleeve how the XG-7001 sweeps are cut, time-constants etc?

Low shelf f1 2.4Hz and f2 241Hz.

8824EFE8-0CD8-4BBA-B9BB-AFC106FBC016.jpeg
Sorry - thought I’d posted this yesterday.
 

Thomas_A

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morillon

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hello
what version-prints of the denon do you use?
;-)
 

morillon

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to those testing it in this thread.... ;-)
just that there was a premium reprint made in 1998...
I will try to compare the 76 and 98 ... will tell you on my scale if there are significant differences on the centering side
on the other hand I do not know the tacet which seems a great classic in your country..
(if I understand correctly there are few valid draws of these (?))
 

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to those testing it in this thread.... ;-)
just that there was a premium reprint made in 1998...
I will try to compare the 76 and 98 ... will tell you on my scale if there are significant differences on the centering side
on the other hand I do not know the tacet which seems a great classic in your country..
(if I understand correctly there are few valid draws of these (?))
The centering on mine was adequate enough for the job. It doesn't have to be perfect for it to be useful. You simply can't get a WF number for it, which is not the end of the world. Seeing what the rotations look like on the graph is far more useful to see if there are issues. However in my case it may not be helpful for that if my turntable is running well. Still, it would be good to have comparison data between the two pressings. Feel free to send me the recordings if you want me to run them through the script for you.


The Tacet record is German but widely available in the US. The one record I got that worked I bought 4 years ago. It is off-center, but the hole is wide enough that I can center it. (Close enough anyways.) I have not been able to get another decent copy since so I cannot recommend it. Perhaps if you can find an old copy in good condition for cheap it may be worth trying. I have even tried looking at the markings to see if there was anything distinctive about my copy but I could not get anywhere with that.
 

morillon

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if I come across a tacet, maybe I'll look..
otherwise I have enough lp tests..
;-)
 
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I recall the capacitance was 350pF total in the introduction to these tests (quite a few pages dedicated in the introduction). Whatever, I loved my V15VMR, finding it gave a truthful if smaller than the best, rendition of what is there in the grooves using trusted music sources and good digital comparisons (my pal was a mastering engineer and proved invaluable witjh knowledge and trusted source material back in the day when all this mattered...).

A "healthy" V15-VMR is one of the flattest I've ever come across. If they used that record it's only partway explained.

I've some friends that are mastering engineers as well. Interesting experience to be able to compare source vs. cutter feedback vs. lacquer layback vs. a pressing.
 

DSJR

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A "healthy" V15-VMR is one of the flattest I've ever come across. If they used that record it's only partway explained.

I've some friends that are mastering engineers as well. Interesting experience to be able to compare source vs. cutter feedback vs. lacquer layback vs. a pressing.
You try passing on those experiences to subjectivist audiophools. Total denial and disbelief and I've tried, I really have and was all butt booted off certain forums for trying to educate these people.

I still have the VM5MR stylus with broken cantilever. I wonder if it can be spliced back together without ruining it? ESCo in the UK used to do such things but it's been decades since I last dealt with them.

Back on topic, good luck with the script ideas and hope some of you can make it work and post your results.
 

narud

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You try passing on those experiences to subjectivist audiophools. Total denial and disbelief and I've tried, I really have and was all butt booted off certain forums for trying to educate these people.

I still have the VM5MR stylus with broken cantilever. I wonder if it can be spliced back together without ruining it? ESCo in the UK used to do such things but it's been decades since I last dealt with them.

Back on topic, good luck with the script ideas and hope some of you can make it work and post your results.
one of my v15vmr's i bought came with a snapped cant due to the seller deciding it made more sense to wrap it in a paper towel than use the included original box. i sent it to joseph long and he reattched it with a small splint of aluminum. boron was too narrow to work. the job cost 100 bucks and it still seems to track as well as my non snapped in half examples. im sure it being compromised and having added mass is effecting tracking to some degree, but thankfully its beyond the realm of my perception.
 

narud

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A "healthy" V15-VMR is one of the flattest I've ever come across. If they used that record it's only partway explained.

I've some friends that are mastering engineers as well. Interesting experience to be able to compare source vs. cutter feedback vs. lacquer layback vs. a pressing.
what frequency response changes could one expect if the suspension has aged?
 

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one of my v15vmr's i bought came with a snapped cant due to the seller deciding it made more sense to wrap it in a paper towel than use the included original box. i sent it to joseph long and he reattched it with a small splint of aluminum. boron was too narrow to work. the job cost 100 bucks and it still seems to track as well as my non snapped in half examples. im sure it being compromised and having added mass is effecting tracking to some degree, but thankfully its beyond the realm of my perception.
Would love to see a measurement of that. I am super curious as to the actual results of re-tippings. I imagine it would end up looking similar to what a third party stylus often looks like on a cartridge.

Here is a Jico SAS Boron stylus on a V15 V-MR measurement that was shared on this site:
Shure V15 V-MR SAS-B.png


As far as suspension issues, here are measurements I took of a cartridge that had a hardened suspension damper:
Audio-Technica AT15Ea - Denon DP-30L II - 1.png

I worked on it some and used some rubber restorer and got this, which looks much closer to the classic Audio-Technica FR:

Audio-Technica AT15Ea - Denon DP-30L II - 1.png
 
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morillon

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very interesting your approach "renover for rubber"..
could you explain what it is?
(I imagine that diverting from a use like refreshing the suspensions of hp? or rubber of joints etc)
thank you
( some time i use sonax but never try with rubber in cartdrige!)
 
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USER

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very interesting your approach "renover for rubber"..
could you explain what it is?
(I imagine that diverting from a use like refreshing the suspensions of hp? or rubber of joints etc)
thank you
( some time i use sonax but never try with rubber in cartdrige!)
I was experimenting as I had nothing to lose. But, yeah, I put a little Sonax GummiPfleger on the suspension damper with a small q-tip as the issue was clearly that it hardened. I put on a little at a time and measured the results after a few hours to see if anything was happening. I also adjusted the set-screw. I don't know the long term effects so I do not vouch for this and can only say do the same at your own risk.

The main point is that these graphs can help you do all sorts of things. I cringe when I read about people doing similar things and only confirm by ear.

Edit: Looking at the graph again and now knowing about the ~0.5dB dip between 5-10k, I can see that it still isn't right. (Though it is much better.) I'll have to experiment with the screw some more.
 
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