Philharmonic BMR Towers, Follow Up Review, frequency sweeps and Room Treatments

[tw 2022]

A

I don't hear any issues with my version 1s around 95db when playing music without the subs. I cross them over @110hz when playing movies.

This is what I figured given my experience.... Iirc, Dennis actually told me they were good up to about 100 db ( at measuring distance: 1 meter or less I would assume )....

 

[Mort]

I'm skeptical when someone says it's 'too revealing'.

 

[tw 2022]

actually no- that other forum poster was talking about the most recent gen of the BMR Monitor (3 way with Ceramic Woofer) I confirmed it. Although, they were annoyed at resonance they claimed they heard on on particularly badly recorded track. I am thinking the more revealing nature of the BMR ribbon and mid-range drivers revealed more than they liked thus the already terrible track sounded even more terrible. As to their comment about running out of gas at 85dB I can't speak to that. But they did say they were using an Pontus II which is an R2R NOS DAC. Anyone have measurements of those?

Pards, I can tell you without reservation: they DO NOT crap out at anywhere near 85 db, you can say this all you want, but it won't change reality....

 

[tw 2022]

I'm skeptical when someone says it's 'too revealing'.

There's no such thing.. Too treble heavy , yep... But that's not the bmr's...

 

[Everett T]

when did you buy/ build yours and whose plans? Can you post some pics and details?

I built them in July of 2019 and I bought the kit from Mensicus before they went out of business. I'll takes some pics of those when I'm back in the Florida house after the new year. I have Salk Encore 3s version 2 with the Eton midrange. Have Salk Veracity ST in the Missouri house where I am now. I have a bunch of other speakers but really prefer Dennis's and Paul K's work, they suit my ear. Pic of the STs

.

 

[Everett T]

I'm skeptical when someone says it's 'too revealing'.

I didn't mean to imply "too" reveling, just reveling. It is either or isn't reveling.

 

[Everett T]

Pards, I can tell you without reservation: they DO NOT crap out at anywhere near 85 db, you can say this all you want, but it won't change reality....

They might not have had a sufficient amplifier depending of the distance and design. V2 has a higher sensitivity than V1 and anything over 3 meters at the MLP will tax an average amp at 95dbs. Something definitely sounds off..

 

[jmdesignz2]

Pards, I can tell you without reservation: they DO NOT crap out at anywhere near 85 db, you can say this all you want, but it won't change reality....

Exactly why I’m skeptical about that person’s setup and source material music

 

[jmdesignz2]

I'm skeptical when someone says it's 'too revealing'.

Too revealing for that person’s source material and their personal tastes

If someone has been listening to loudness war mastered music and euphonically tuned speakers for years then heard the same music on the BMR monitors they would be extremely disappointed

 

[Mort]

fair enough , but I think it would be very close to 95 db , Erin would have mentioned it if they weren't able to handle spl... that may have been the version 1 though, but the same principle should apply in general, they're gonna be voiced very similarly..

It just depends on the music. I know because I blew out a BMR woofer on 'Bad Guy' long before I got to 95db at 5 feet. Bass takes a lot of power. I can barely get 95db with an 8361a and 7380a sub on a bass heavy track before it goes into compression.

If you are listening to acoustic guitar and string quartets, you can probably hit ~95db with the monitor.

BMR monitor does a wide frequency range in a smaller box with controlled and wide directivity at a very modest price point and gorgeous finishes. I can't say enough about it. But it isn't for blasting sub bass.

 

[amadeuswus]

A recent review of the BMR Towers from Robert E. Greene (I know, TAS isn't much respected around here!):

Philharmonic BMR Tower

The Philharmonic BMR Tower speaker is an extraordinary and fascinating product. At first glance, it might seem to be just another three-way floorstander,

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[Mort]

Summary seems pretty fair to me.

Our own Paul Seydor has said to me on occasion that the critic must grant the artist his premises. In this spirit, perhaps I am obligated to grant designer Dennis Murphy his commitment to ultra-wide dispersion horizontally, which seems to be one of his guiding principles. Still, I cannot help observing that this choice has all but forced the speaker to make some compromises in other directions. In particular, I cannot help wondering whether it might have been more desirable to make the speaker more nearly constant in response over a window on either side of the axis of, say ±30 degrees, even if one had to give up the close to 180º dispersion on average. (Actually, it is more like ±80 degrees but still, very wide.) I also had some difficulty with the sonic coherence of the midrange-tweeter assembly, with the tweeter becoming audible as a discrete source if volume was even slightly too high. No speaker is perfect. But Dennis Murphy has set out, as I gather, to offer his vision of the best performance possible at a price that is affordable. And here his accomplishment is both truly impressive and admirable to my mind.

The BMR Tower benefits from amplifier power. I used the Schiit Tyr monoblock amplifiers, which of course sailed through utterly unfazed (one has the feeling they can drive anything). I admire the Tyrs’ unreservedly and their price is very reasonable for what they offer. But if money were tight, one could get adequate power for even less, either by less ultimate analog or by a Class D design. And combine such an amp with a streaming device that offers DSP EQ (and such devices need not be expensive) and one is looking at a high-end system in the range of less than say $7500 for the whole thing. For a long-term investment, this would be within the budget of a great many people.

And what a system it would be, offering a very great deal of what high end is traditionally aiming at. No doubt we all have our favorites among speakers, but it is startling to find a transducer at this price that offers so much of what people are trying or get in price-no object high end. In terms of low distortion, clarity, bass definition and extension, low diffraction and its benefits, perceived resolution, and sense of scale and space, a BMR Tower system is contending at a very high level. And if some speakers optimized for neutrality on-axis and total coherence at close range do those things somewhat better, I suppose one can simply accept that as one of the compromises that every speaker choice entails. It may take some effort to get the BMR Tower to sound as good as they can sound, but the effort will be well worthwhile.

 

[bagwell359]

I have Philharmonic Monitor v2 for over a year, and had the Towers here on loan recently. Room is 18 x14 x 8.5. Well treated esp at the early reflection points, with diffusion/absorption.

I had a Schiit Ragnarok 2 and the Monitors would get to about 94 db at 10 feet before the amp/room glared with full range source. Then I switched to the Schiit Wotan and I get about 97 db from the Monitor and and a 98-99 from the Tower. The room starts to glare a bit, and I don't like it loud, so they could go higher perhaps. The Towers playing bass heavy stuff like 'Silly Puty' by Stanley Clarke will shake the walls better than the Monitors - for sure. Also the Towers handle dynamics a bit better than the Monitors,

While they won't do hair raising EDM bass at volumes some speakers would do, both speakers are about playing very accurately at reasonable levels IMO. And both are straight bargains IMO.

Philharmonic makes a HT Tower with an AMT tweeter that on paper puts out more. Or get a set of horn speakers that really play loud.

 

[jmdesignz2]

I have Philharmonic Monitor v2 for over a year, and had the Towers here on loan recently. Room is 18 x14 x 8.5. Well treated esp at the early reflection points, with diffusion/absorption.

I had a Schiit Ragnarok 2 and the Monitors would get to about 94 db at 10 feet before the amp/room glared with full range source. Then I switched to the Schiit Wotan and I get about 97 db from the Monitor and and a 98-99 from the Tower. The room starts to glare a bit, and I don't like it loud, so they could go higher perhaps. The Towers playing bass heavy stuff like 'Silly Puty' by Stanley Clarke will shake the walls better than the Monitors - for sure. Also the Towers handle dynamics a bit better than the Monitors,

While they won't do hair raising EDM bass at volumes some speakers would do, both speakers are about playing very accurately at reasonable levels IMO. And both are straight bargains IMO.

Philharmonic makes a HT Tower with an AMT tweeter that on paper puts out more. Or get a set of horn speakers that really play loud.

Interesting observations

Thanks for sharing

Can you be more detailed about your acoustic treatments?

 

[Everett T]

I have Philharmonic Monitor v2 for over a year, and had the Towers here on loan recently. Room is 18 x14 x 8.5. Well treated esp at the early reflection points, with diffusion/absorption.

I had a Schiit Ragnarok 2 and the Monitors would get to about 94 db at 10 feet before the amp/room glared with full range source. Then I switched to the Schiit Wotan and I get about 97 db from the Monitor and and a 98-99 from the Tower. The room starts to glare a bit, and I don't like it loud, so they could go higher perhaps. The Towers playing bass heavy stuff like 'Silly Puty' by Stanley Clarke will shake the walls better than the Monitors - for sure. Also the Towers handle dynamics a bit better than the Monitors,

While they won't do hair raising EDM bass at volumes some speakers would do, both speakers are about playing very accurately at reasonable levels IMO. And both are straight bargains IMO.

Philharmonic makes a HT Tower with an AMT tweeter that on paper puts out more. Or get a set of horn speakers that really play loud.

The HTs will have no problem with reference level playback with that tweeter, and with low distortion from it and both woofers. IMHO a nice bargain for what it does.

 

[Chanur]

Summary seems pretty fair to me.

Our own Paul Seydor has said to me on occasion that the critic must grant the artist his premises. In this spirit, perhaps I am obligated to grant designer Dennis Murphy his commitment to ultra-wide dispersion horizontally, which seems to be one of his guiding principles. Still, I cannot help observing that this choice has all but forced the speaker to make some compromises in other directions. In particular, I cannot help wondering whether it might have been more desirable to make the speaker more nearly constant in response over a window on either side of the axis of, say ±30 degrees, even if one had to give up the close to 180º dispersion on average. (Actually, it is more like ±80 degrees but still, very wide.) I also had some difficulty with the sonic coherence of the midrange-tweeter assembly, with the tweeter becoming audible as a discrete source if volume was even slightly too high. No speaker is perfect. But Dennis Murphy has set out, as I gather, to offer his vision of the best performance possible at a price that is affordable. And here his accomplishment is both truly impressive and admirable to my mind.

The BMR Tower benefits from amplifier power. I used the Schiit Tyr monoblock amplifiers, which of course sailed through utterly unfazed (one has the feeling they can drive anything). I admire the Tyrs’ unreservedly and their price is very reasonable for what they offer. But if money were tight, one could get adequate power for even less, either by less ultimate analog or by a Class D design. And combine such an amp with a streaming device that offers DSP EQ (and such devices need not be expensive) and one is looking at a high-end system in the range of less than say $7500 for the whole thing. For a long-term investment, this would be within the budget of a great many people.

And what a system it would be, offering a very great deal of what high end is traditionally aiming at. No doubt we all have our favorites among speakers, but it is startling to find a transducer at this price that offers so much of what people are trying or get in price-no object high end. In terms of low distortion, clarity, bass definition and extension, low diffraction and its benefits, perceived resolution, and sense of scale and space, a BMR Tower system is contending at a very high level. And if some speakers optimized for neutrality on-axis and total coherence at close range do those things somewhat better, I suppose one can simply accept that as one of the compromises that every speaker choice entails. It may take some effort to get the BMR Tower to sound as good as they can sound, but the effort will be well worthwhile.

I know the wide soundstage will not be for everyone but I absolutely love that I can walk around the living room and the sound really doesn't change for me. They absolutely destroy my old crappy Klipsch in that way.

 

[tw 2022]

I know the wide soundstage will not be for everyone but I absolutely love that I can walk around the living room and the sound really doesn't change for me. They absolutely destroy my old crappy Klipsch in that way.

Yeah wide dispersion is a preference thing, lots of folks get hooked on narrow dispersion because of the inherent imaging advantages, but if you like a bigger stage and more "air" wide dispersion *generally* works out better...then we can open the whole can of point source ( concentric ) speakers and their advantages especially in smaller rooms....

 

[bagwell359]

Interesting observations

Thanks for sharing

Can you be more detailed about your acoustic treatments?

two large padded chairs and a padded couch, a number of framed pictures with thick wood/paper/matte with no glass, curtains over slider, 4 padded 3'x2'x3" absorbing panels, and 4 ASC 1/2 traps and 2 ASC 1/4 traps.

 

[bagwell359]

Yeah wide dispersion is a preference thing, lots of folks get hooked on narrow dispersion because of the inherent imaging advantages, but if you like a bigger stage and more "air" wide dispersion *generally* works out better...then we can open the whole can of point source ( concentric ) speakers and their advantages especially in smaller rooms....

My Philharmonic Monitors have not only superb width/depth of stage, but instruments, adjacent instruments, and space between them is superbly rendered. Excellent timbre, excellent low volume intellegibility. But it is important to keep the early reflections on the side walls tamed or those characteristics get muted.

TIDAL->Cambridge MXN10/Cambridge CXC->Schiit Gungnir 2->Kara F->Wotan F->BMR, Philharmonic Monitors

I've been at this if you include my fathers system (Quad ESL) since 1966. The only speakers I've owned/or had on long term loan that can compete with the Monitors is the Verity Parsifal ($20k 3 way). And the Monitors Raal tweeter is better, and bass very similar except the missing 25-35 Hz area.

Even narrow dispersion speakers which awake less room issues all things being equal - they can still be awful in overly live or dead rooms.

 

[tw 2022]

My Philharmonic Monitors have not only superb width/depth of stage, but instruments, adjacent instruments, and space between them is superbly rendered. Excellent timbre, excellent low volume intellegibility. But it is important to keep the early reflections on the side walls tamed or those characteristics get muted.

TIDAL->Cambridge MXN10/Cambridge CXC->Schiit Gungnir 2->Kara F->Wotan F->BMR, Philharmonic Monitors

I've been at this if you include my fathers system (Quad ESL) since 1966. The only speakers I've owned/or had on long term loan that can compete with the Monitors is the Verity Parsifal ($20k 3 way). And the Monitors Raal tweeter is better, and bass very similar except the missing 25-35 Hz area.

Even narrow dispersion speakers which awake less room issues all things being equal - they can still be awful in overly live or dead rooms.

I've only heard the bmr 's one day for several hours at a speaker shoot out here in Phoenix, I got to listen to some other good speakers as well ( kef r3 included), it only took that one experience, along with owning Dennis' mod of the emotive b1 monitor , to know the bmr monitors are my endgame speakers...