Philharmonic BMR Monitor Semi-Objective Review - Road Show Stop 1

[hardisj]

I think Dennis said there was a question about whether low freq and high freq measurements were merged correctly in those reviews.

That’s news to me. Especially since my reviews never 'merged' anything.

(to explain: my ground plane measurements in my earlier data were never merged with farfield. the ground plane acted as an anechoic 'reference' to which in-room/quasi-anechoic measurements were based on and the Klippel ISC module used that data to know when the first room reflection was and was able to build a 'room correction' response that made the quasi-anechoic measurements then anechoic. I covered all this many times in my earlier tests/posts)

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That’s news to me. Especially since my reviews never 'merged' anything.

(to explain: my ground plane measurements in my earlier data were never merged with farfield. the ground plane acted as an anechoic 'reference' to which in-room/quasi-anechoic measurements were based on and the Klippel ISC module used that data to know when the first room reflection was and was able to build a 'room correction' response that made the quasi-anechoic measurements then anechoic. I covered all this many times in my earlier tests/posts)

I don't recall any discussion of merged data. I did have some problems with the ground plane results on the Audioholics review, and I'm not convinced that the technique always picks up the full output of a rear port, but that's about it.

 

[hardisj]

I don't recall any discussion of merged data. I did have some problems with the ground plane results on the Audioholics review, and I'm not convinced that the technique always picks up the full output of a rear port, but that's about it.

Yea, I was gonna say that if you had mentioned it to me I’d surely have remembered and likely would have re-tested if it was a legitimate concern.

Thanks for clearing that up before it spread.

 

[pjug]

That’s news to me. Especially since my reviews never 'merged' anything.

(to explain: my ground plane measurements in my earlier data were never merged with farfield. the ground plane acted as an anechoic 'reference' to which in-room/quasi-anechoic measurements were based on and the Klippel ISC module used that data to know when the first room reflection was and was able to build a 'room correction' response that made the quasi-anechoic measurements then anechoic. I covered all this many times in my earlier tests/posts)

Sorry that I never read on your methodology using Klippel to process previously collected data. I shouldn't have mentioned it anyway because the point of my post wasn't so much about questioning measurements as it was hoping for new measurements of what is now a different speaker.

 

[pjug]

I don't recall any discussion of merged data. I did have some problems with the ground plane results on the Audioholics review, and I'm not convinced that the technique always picks up the full output of a rear port, but that's about it.

Yes sorry I got this wrong. I appreciate the work of both of you so I hate that I bungled it in my message.

 

[Chromatischism]

There is also very little known research on vertical dispersion and how it relates to what we like.

How about putting some foam at the top and bottom of a wide-dispersion dome tweeter and seeing if the sound improves.

 

[Beave]

Interested in the towers though I'm not sure I'll have space. The obvious price point comparison to speakers designed with science would be the revel F206 though they won't have the bass reach. The kef R11 and focal aria 948 are also slightly cheaper and will be decent. The BMR midrange drive offers good value for money, but I wonder once the price gets this high if it still holds it's own? Plenty of comparison from the regular BMR to the f226be makes me think it should but I can't help but wonder if a more expensive midrange would work better for a modest increase in cost? I hope the reviewer in question has access to those alternatives as good comparison points (and preferably a group blind test).

??

 

[JEarle]

Interested in the towers though I'm not sure I'll have space. The obvious price point comparison to speakers designed with science would be the revel F206 though they won't have the bass reach. The kef R11 and focal aria 948 are also slightly cheaper and will be decent. The BMR midrange drive offers good value for money, but I wonder once the price gets this high if it still holds it's own? Plenty of comparison from the regular BMR to the f226be makes me think it should but I can't help but wonder if a more expensive midrange would work better for a modest increase in cost? I hope the reviewer in question has access to those alternatives as good comparison points (and preferably a group blind test).

I cant help think that the midrange device was chosen because of its attributes, not because its a cheap part. The tweeter isn't exactly a budget model.

 

[stren]

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Haha price was each not per pair. Good point. I was confused at the time thinking they were cheaper than I thought...

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I cant help think that the midrange device was chosen because of its attributes, not because its a cheap part. The tweeter isn't exactly a budget model.

I'm sure Dennis saying that a few posts ago can put your thoughts to guarantees.

You beat me to it. The whole raison d'etre for the BMR is wide, even dispersion. There are a bajillion excellent speakers with a narrower and more conventional radiation pattern, and I've designed quite a few myself for Salk Sound. But I was targeting a design approach that I've found particularly successful in resolving inner detail and spaciousness in complex music recorded in a natural venue (classical works, non-studio jazz recordings). I've tried some small midrange units from the major speaker driver companies, and they just didn't perform as well as the bending-wave BMR. My latest attempt was the uber-expensive Accuton Cell mid, which definitely gives the BMR some competition. It measures with a little less distortion and is even smoother, but it lists for $600 a pop and doesn't quite match the dispersion of the BMR.

 

[stren]

I cant help think that the midrange device was chosen because of its attributes, not because its a cheap part. The tweeter isn't exactly a budget model.

Yeah I wasn't saying they are bad, just wondering once you get to $3700 vs the $1700 of the non tower whether it made sense to spend a bit more for a better driver. As I don't know much about drivers I was just asking the question. But yes Dennis answered that.

 

[Ericglo]

Thanks. I look forward to seeing the tower reviewed but more I am interested in measurements of the standmount BMR with newer ceramic woofer, since I own these. Erin's review was before he had the Klippel and the Audioholics review also used manual measurements. I think Dennis said there was a question about whether low freq and high freq measurements were merged correctly in those reviews. And anyway it is a different speaker now so I think worth measuring if someone can do it.

Why don't you send them to Erin to have them put on the Klippel?

 

[pjug]

Why don't you send them to Erin to have them put on the Klippel?

If I was close enough to drive them I would but I don't want to ship them or part with them for any long period.

 

[milan616]

If I was close enough to drive them I would but I don't want to ship them or part with them for any long period.

This is my problem with the AA+ monitors. I really wanted to have them measured but since they are a kit I couldn't ship them to Erin or Amir and once I had them I can't let them go!

 

[Ericglo]

If I was close enough to drive them I would but I don't want to ship them or part with them for any long period.

I think Erin would only need them for about a week. If that is to long for you, then take up a collection to see if Dennis will ship a spare.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I think Erin would only need them for about a week. If that is to long for you, then take up a collection to see if Dennis will ship a spare.

Convince Dennis to ship my towers and bmr center to Erin before they get sent to me around Christmas.
It isn't cheap to ship these things and I'm only paying shipping once! So whoever wants to pony up the $350 to get these shipped to Erin first....

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Yeah I wasn't saying they are bad, just wondering once you get to $3700 vs the $1700 of the non tower whether it made sense to spend a bit more for a better driver. As I don't know much about drivers I was just asking the question. But yes Dennis answered th3900

Convince Dennis to ship my towers and bmr center to Erin before they get sent to me around Christmas.
It isn't cheap to ship these things and I'm only paying shipping once! So whoever wants to pony up the $350 to get these shipped to Erin first....

Let's wait for the impending review to come out and then you can see whether the Klippel will really add all that much.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Let's wait for the impending review to come out and then you can see whether the Klippel will really add all that much.

I don't think it would. Higher resolution sure. But not a whole lot of general differences. Hence why I'm only paying for shipping once

 

[pjug]

I think Erin would only need them for about a week. If that is to long for you, then take up a collection to see if Dennis will ship a spare.

I just asked about it because I thought the roadshow speakers might get a measurement in the end since they are/were already being passed around. I really don't want to ship mine. For the record, I have sent some things to Amir that were measured here. But I don't want to do it with these speakers.

 

[stren]

Convince Dennis to ship my towers and bmr center to Erin before they get sent to me around Christmas.
It isn't cheap to ship these things and I'm only paying shipping once! So whoever wants to pony up the $350 to get these shipped to Erin first....

Is the centre just a bookshelf or is there a a different center designed too? I'd chip in for $20 of the shipping