Persian carpets: what type?

[ripmixburn]

Reading Art Noxon’s post on Acoustic Carpets for High End Audio Applications it's clear that aside from cheap carpet on felt pad, beautiful Persian carpets can provide great acoustic benefit for floor reflections.

He mentions that:

• The pile is ⅝ to ¾ inches deep
• The knap is very dense, i.e. lots of threads, tightly packed together

Of course shopping for a Persian carpet is famous for being one of the hardest things to shop for, and can get expensive very quickly. Most shops don’t understand acoustics and rarely know pile height, knot count or even weight off-hand. It's very easy to make a very expensive mistake.

I thought that gabbeh carpets, which are used by nomadic peoples for sleeping on, would be ideal as they are so heavy, but the knap is apparently not very dense.

Do we have any Persian carpet aficionados in the house? What are the attributes/kinds to look for, and to avoid?

Here's a great map I found of carpets of Persia for reference. Looking forward to your responses! This is an under-discussed topic on this site.

UPDATE: After speaking with a few experts, Bidjar (aka Bijar) and Bakhtiar types were recommended because many feature a dense knot count and high pile.

 

[SaltyCDogg]

Interesting article. I'm in the market for a large rug to cover a hard floor in my lounge and it's made realise that just going for something thick isn't necessarily going to cut it. Have to start making snake noises in the shop now...

 

[sarumbear]

Reading Art Noxon’s post on Acoustic Carpets for High End Audio Applications it's clear that aside from cheap carpet on felt pad, beautiful Persian carpets can provide great acoustic benefit for floor reflections.

There is a lack of knowledge about Persian carpets. Persian carpets are famous for their knot density. If you have dense knots in a carpet the piles will be short and hence it will absorb less.

In short, Persian carpets are the worst type of carpet to use for reducing floor reflections. The best carpet for the job is the 70s shag-pile with deep piles. Similar to this one.

 

[Kuba]

Worth going to Iran if you want to buy Persian carpet. Amazing country to visit.

 

[SaltyCDogg]

There is a lack of knowledge about Persian carpets. Persian carpets are famous for their knot density. If you have dense knots in a carpet the piles will be short and hence it will absorb less.

In short, Persian carpets are the worst type of carpet to use for reducing floor reflections. The best carpet for the job is the 70s shag-pile with deep piles. Similar to this one.

Kind of the opposite of what the article is saying. Not say he's right and you're wrong. Cheaper machine made rugs will normally have a closed back design I guess. I wondering if going for something higher quality, but open backed, with a decent pad underneath. maybe like 3rd example here might be the way to go:

Loud Neighbors? These Rug Pads Dampen Noise & They're Apartment Game-Changers

The best rug pads for soundproofing are ones that are made of a denser material, that helps to cut down on noise passing between floors.

www.bustle.com

I don't think having a thick rug with a thick pad is a great option since it turns into a trip hazard.

 

[sarumbear]

Kind of the opposite of what the article is saying. Not say he's right and you're wrong. Cheaper machine made rugs will normally have a closed back design I guess. I wondering if going for something higher quality, but open backed, with a decent pad underneath. maybe like 3rd example here might be the way to go:

Loud Neighbors? These Rug Pads Dampen Noise & They're Apartment Game-Changers

The best rug pads for soundproofing are ones that are made of a denser material, that helps to cut down on noise passing between floors.

www.bustle.com

The article is about sound insulation not absorption a big difference.

I don't think having a thick rug with a thick pad is a great option since it turns into a trip hazard.

That is not the criteria here.

 

[abdo123]

There is a lack of knowledge about Persian carpets. Persian carpets are famous for their knot density. If you have dense knots in a carpet the piles will be short and hence it will absorb less.

In short, Persian carpets are the worst type of carpet to use for reducing floor reflections. The best carpet for the job is the 70s shag-pile with deep piles. Similar to this one.

Indeed Middle-eastern carpets have an incredibly dense canvas to the point that i doubt it will even pass sound itself through above 100Hz or so. But don't think the carpet you linked on the other hand has too much frills? do you think it would suck out too much high frequencies?

Sheep skin / animal fur imo would be great, if we're talking strictly about aesthetically pleasing things to put on the floor.

 

[sarumbear]

Indeed Middle-eastern carpets have an incredibly dense canvas to the point that i doubt it will even pass sound itself through above 100Hz or so. But don't think the carpet you linked on the other hand has too much frills? do you think it would suck out too much high frequencies?

Sheep skin / animal fur imo would be great, if we're talking strictly about aesthetically pleasing things to put on the floor.

The example I posted was just to show that you need long piles. Sheep skin or a wild animal skin are good solutions.

Long piles will spread the frequency range of the absorption. The rule of thumb is the thinner and longer the piles the wider the frequency range it will absorb sound.

 

[Ken1951]

We have beautiful Persian carpets, but it's because we love the way they look on our wood floors. We have decent equipment, but decorate for the way we want our home to look. Not adding room treatments for audio. I know, I know. I should ban myself from the site!

 

[anmpr1]

I don't know if it helps. Some here would say nothing could help this gear. I don't think it hurts. Top rug is fake fireplace throw. Bottom is an authentic Persian rug, from the '50s.

 

[ripmixburn]

Indeed Middle-eastern carpets have an incredibly dense canvas to the point that i doubt it will even pass sound itself through above 100Hz or so. But don't think the carpet you linked on the other hand has too much frills? do you think it would suck out too much high frequencies?

Sheep skin / animal fur imo would be great, if we're talking strictly about aesthetically pleasing things to put on the floor.

I use these on the dining chairs and though I haven't measured them (I currently would not know how to do that properly) they certainly seem to absorb a lot of sound. Not practical where I need them unfortunately with an ottoman and ~50 square feet of space to cover. That hide would come from one scary beast.

 

[ripmixburn]

We have beautiful Persian carpets, but it's because we love the way they look on our wood floors. We have decent equipment, but decorate for the way we want our home to look. Not adding room treatments for audio. I know, I know. I should ban myself from the site!

I'm going to try to satisfy both requirements: good looks and good sound!

 

[ripmixburn]

Worth going to Iran if you want to buy Persian carpet. Amazing country to visit.

Definitely a life goal. Sounds like such a culturally rich place and I love the food.

 

[Vict0r]

I use an open weave, thick woolen rug with a felt pad underneath.

 

[ripmixburn]

There is a lack of knowledge about Persian carpets. Persian carpets are famous for their knot density. If you have dense knots in a carpet the piles will be short and hence it will absorb less.

In short, Persian carpets are the worst type of carpet to use for reducing floor reflections. The best carpet for the job is the 70s shag-pile with deep piles. Similar to this one.

Did you check out the article? It's written by an AES member (and writer) who's an engineer, and president of his own acoustic company. He also claims you need deep piles but also dense. No measurements are posted though.

 

[ripmixburn]

I use an open weave, thick woolen rug with a felt pad underneath.

View attachment 157907

This is also recommended in the article. Do you know another name for that type of carpet? Searching for "open weave wool carpet" is not fetching anything as fetching. Even the carpet pad looks different than what I see available in North America anyway.

 

[Ken1951]

I don't know if it helps. Some here would say nothing could help this gear. I don't think it hurts. Top rug is fake fireplace throw. Bottom is an authentic Persian rug, from the '50s.

View attachment 157901

Love your wall color as well as the rug!

 

[_thelaughingman]

The shag kind is best.

 

[Kuba]

Definitely a life goal. Sounds like such a culturally rich place and I love the food.

Food is actually just a little bit disappointing, but in my case probably due to exaggerated expectations. But hospitality of the people is off the charts (imagine SINAD around 180 )

 

[SaltyCDogg]

The article is about sound insulation not absorption a big difference.

That is not the criteria here.

I'm referring to the OP's article. The thing I linked was just to illustrate different pad types you might put under a rug.

The criteria for me was minimising reflections in an aesthetic, cost effective and non trip hazard manner. To that end I'm thinking that a moderately priced hand knotted rug with a pad beneath is good option.