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Perlisten speakers

MZKM

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What's going on with horizontal directivity collapsing at 3 kHz? You get the inconvenients of wide dispersion without its advantages, this way.
The upper and lower bass drivers play from 22Hz to 550Hz, the middle set of bass drivers play from 22Hz to 1,350Hz, the midrange domes play from 1kHz to 4kHz, and the tweeter plays from 1kHz to 30kHz+

The waveguided tweeter starts to play solo around that frequency, which will have less horizontal dispersion than the dual tweeters which aren’t in a waveguide. The waveguide exists though as the main tweeter is playing down to 1kHz.

I wonder if they simply got rid of the vertical directivity control and focused on the dual tweeters being a true midrange (like Tekton with their designs) how that would fare, meaning the main tweeter starting only around 4kHz.
 
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Spocko

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Vertical dispersion control is very well done (limiting any potential harmful influence of poor ceiling & floor bounces).
@95db
@hardisj recently interviewed F. Toole who commented that floor reflections are desirable and that nobody has shown vertical reflections to be undesirable so are we just assuming its influence is “harmful”? Remember we just recently discovered the benefits of some first reflections in stereo listening as it adds to the feeling of ambience and space. Please correct me if I’m wrong @hardisj but in your interview didn’t Toole say people didn’t like it when you removed floor reflections?
 

MZKM

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@hardisj recently interviewed F. Toole who commented that floor reflections are desirable and that nobody has shown vertical reflections to be undesirable so are we just assuming its influence is “harmful”? Remember we just recently discovered the benefits of some first reflections in stereo listening as it adds to the feeling of ambience and space. Please correct me if I’m wrong @hardisj but in your interview didn’t Toole say people didn’t like it when you removed floor reflections?
Correct, that’s why I said limiting potentially harmful ones, meaning ones of totally different frequency response, as Toole states that the vertical reflections mainly only affect timbre. So for a coaxial like KEF or the Genelec Ones line, you don’t have to worry, but you may want a thick rug if the floor bounce of your speaker is really poor.
 

Descartes

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They are not my taste in terms of esthetics! I find them really ugly especially with the veneer wood!
 

MarkS

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I think they need a nice discreet grille to cover all the drivers.
Only if they can make it non-diffracting.

The diffracting grilles on Revels are a real head-scratching choice for Harman ...
 

LearningToSmile

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They are not my taste in terms of esthetics! I find them really ugly especially with the veneer wood!
I'm with you on that veneered wood doesn't work with them.

In black I think they're almost good looking in a very industrial way, save for one thing - was it for some reason impossible to consider the weave pattern when manufacturing the drivers? The seemingly random position and orientation of the pattern would drive me mad. But I like the sculpted look of the front baffle and the 3 driver array. The lower end R5t with plain drivers looks pretty good:
Screenshot_2021-05-21 R5t Tower — Perlisten Audio(1).png
 

Kal Rubinson

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Only if they can make it non-diffracting.

The diffracting grilles on Revels are a real head-scratching choice for Harman ...
But they are removable for when you are just listening.
 

amper42

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Wow, those look really great. Same price as the Revel F328Be, and arguably as good.

Based on James review it looks like the Perlisten bass response starts dropping at 80Hz while the F328 is flat down to 40Hz and only -2db at 29Hz in my room. If the review results are correct the Revel F328Be has a much stronger 29Hz to 80Hz bass response.
 

richard12511

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Based on James review it looks like the Perlisten bass response starts dropping at 80Hz while the F328 is flat down to 40Hz and only -2db at 29Hz in my room. If the review results are correct the Revel F328Be has a much stronger 29Hz to 80Hz bass response.

Oh, yeah I was assuming subwoofers are in play. They look very comparable under that circumstance, though the Revel still looks a little bit better imo.

Perlistens seem to be HT focused speakers ("THX Dominus" :D), designed to pair with subwoofers. They purposely sacrifice low end extension for being able to play louder when paired with subs. For full range use, there are much better options out there imo.
 

BenB

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As you already noted, I would not consider the Snell to be the genesis of this idea. They are both using an array of drivers vertically. That’s about it. Snell is a classic expanding array. Expanding arrays don’t really allow for beam forming and so cannot control the vertical dispersion as well. Both methods typically allow a symmetric lobe however.

the array used by the Perlisten is for beam forming purposes. If we had identical data to compare, the Snell would show a less flat DI, it would be upward tilted. The directivity would look more like a pyramid shape in the vertical domain. Where as the Perlisten looks more like a pencil. Which in my opinion is a better idea. It ensures that the vertical reflections are maximally attenuated over the widest bandwidth and whatever reflections remain have a constant spectral balance.
...

I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make here.

Here's an article quoting David Smith regarding his expanding arrays:
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/334/index.html
David Smith said:
"Instead of concentrating on the complete polar curve, improvements to the forward beam of the array would best benefit the user."

Whether you aim for a 30 degree beamwidth, or a 60 degree beamwidth, it's still beamforming.
 

Spocko

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... Perlistens seem to be HT focused speakers ("THX Dominus" :D), designed to pair with subwoofers. They purposely sacrifice low end extension for being able to play louder when paired with subs. For full range use, there are much better options out there imo.
But wouldn't the Revels play equally loud when paired with subs assuming the same 80Hz cutoff frequency for both? What I'm saying is that it's not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you must sacrifice low end extension in return for being able to play louder when paired with subs. Generally speaking, I thought adding subs and cutting off at 80Hz or higher allows all speakers to play significantly louder because their woofers are no longer limited by compression/distortion due to the higher SPLs - most tower woofers can hit 105 dB at 120Hz without compression.
 

abdo123

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But wouldn't the Revels play equally loud when paired with subs assuming the same 80Hz cutoff frequency for both? What I'm saying is that it's not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you must sacrifice low end extension in return for being able to play louder when paired with subs. Generally speaking, I thought adding subs and cutting off at 80Hz or higher allows all speakers to play significantly louder because their woofers are no longer limited by compression/distortion due to the higher SPLs - most tower woofers can hit 105 dB at 120Hz without compression.

not really, Intermodulation distortion and Harmonic distortion are two different things.

The earlier would be reduced with subwoofers, but the later not too much.
 

Matthew J Poes

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But wouldn't the Revels play equally loud when paired with subs assuming the same 80Hz cutoff frequency for both? What I'm saying is that it's not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you must sacrifice low end extension in return for being able to play louder when paired with subs. Generally speaking, I thought adding subs and cutting off at 80Hz or higher allows all speakers to play significantly louder because their woofers are no longer limited by compression/distortion due to the higher SPLs - most tower woofers can hit 105 dB at 120Hz without compression.

I would need to see more detailed data. Maybe. But most speakers eventually become tweeter limited. The raw tweeters are often maybe 90-96dB 1w/1m. I need to double check this number, but I recall Dan telling me the tweeter array is 112dB sensitive and padded down a lot. So the Perlisten has a ton more headroom in the tweeter section than would the Revel. It’s midbass limited. But those midbass drivers are already more output than Revel has in that area.

all to say, I highly doubt the Revel can do 117dB even above 100hz.
 

Matthew J Poes

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Oh, yeah I was assuming subwoofers are in play. They look very comparable under that circumstance, though the Revel still looks a little bit better imo.

Perlistens seem to be HT focused speakers ("THX Dominus" :D), designed to pair with subwoofers. They purposely sacrifice low end extension for being able to play louder when paired with subs. For full range use, there are much better options out there imo.
They are not. This is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation. The speakers are designed to be equally good with stereo or multichannel. They aren’t that bass sacrificed. Not sure why you think that. They have significant output down to 22hz. In their ported mode the bass rolls off like a sealed box but with more output and excursion control down to 22hz or so. Allowing for in room extension down below 20hz. Remember that those 4 drivers are about equal to a typical 14” driver and they have a ton of excursion. I think you are making assumptions about the sacrifices in this design that simply aren’t true.
 
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