Performance comparison between Dayton 18" Subwoofers

[Trollhammerx]

How does one "use case" between the 3 different Dayton 18" subwoofers? (Ultimax II, Reference HO, and Signature)? All are relatively around the same price range. I read about peoples subjective descriptions to cross compare ("UM has better extension in lowest frequencies" for example). But what factors within the spec sheet can I look at to say... this will punch harder in mid bass frequencies, or this one will have deeper extension? Bottom line, are there data points that make it obvious what the differentiates how different sub drivers will sound or perform? Do I have to model the spec sheet in WINISD to compare driver performance?

I currently have 2 Ultimax 18" in the sealed PE flat pack enclosures powered by Crown amps. They do extend low, but there is no mid bass punch at all. I had a party a few months ago in the basement and Even at loud volumes, I'm totally missing tactile midbass punch. GSG website has their "midbass rating" for enclosures and from their perspective these large pro style drivers are going to provide that but not the UM18. I'm considering adding 2 more sealed subwoofers, and I'm imagining the Reference HO or Signature would perform better in terms of midbass punch in their sealed kits vs the UMII. And do I even need to stick with 18"s? Could I add 2 sealed HO 12's behind the couch and be okay? Can different sized and different drivers blend well or must I stick with same driver same size? If I had more money I'd buy 4 devastator GSG enclosures and 4 new drivers, but I can't afford it. Whatever I can do currently to optimize my setup, i would appreciate the advice. TYIA

 

[DVDdoug]

Do I have to model the spec sheet in WINISD to compare driver performance?

I'd say that's your best option. Personally, I don't know enough about the Thiele-Small parameters to have an intuitive feel of how it's going to perform without running a simulation.

They do extend low, but there is no mid bass punch at all. I had a party a few months ago in the basement and Even at loud volumes,

That's surprising to me! I'd expect you to have plenty of power and piston area to go loud enough over the "whole bass range". But you might actually need to cut the deep-bass range and then turn it up.

Or, you say it goes low, but sealed subs often fall-off and need to EQ to extend the bass, especially with a smallish box or a larger woofer.

You may have Room Modes canceling some important frequencies. It might be worthwhile getting a measurement mic and running REW to see if anything shows-up.

Most "pro" subs used live and in dance clubs are in large ported cabinets and tuned to go down to around 40Hz. The drivers are usually more sensitive/efficient that "home" woofers. The compromises make it possible to fill a large space with bass you can feel.

 

[Hear Here]

Over the last 50 years or so, I've come to the conclusion that 15" bass drivers are quite unnecessary for full-range speakers - or subs. 18" ones would be poorer still. The reason - their voice coils are generally small compared with cone diameter and coil movements result in non-true-piston movemenmt of the cone - this "ripple effect" causes distortion. OK. if you chuck enough money at a 15" driver with very large diameter voice coil and exotic cone materials, you may be able to avoid this distortion and "flabby" bass.

Better probably twin 10" or 12" drivers, My main speakers have twin 12" drivers and these drivers feature 6" voice coils to minimise these problems - but they are very costly. My old speakers (from the 1970s) with 15" drivers would not fare well in comparision with good modern 12" ones.

You mention flat-pack enclosures. How rigid are these enclosures and what material and thickness is used. What do they weigh? Sounds dire on the face of it!

 

[voodooless]

A traditional home hifi setup with subs is not really suited for kickbass punch. This lives beyond the usual 80 Hz crossover, so the subs won’t even play that frequency range.

You could create a party setting that does let these frequencies though, let’s say until 120 or 150 Hz. That would make a big difference, but really the punch frequencies can easily extend even higher towards 250Hz or so. But possibly the main speaker have enough oomph there to play their part.

 

[JohnnyNG]

A traditional home hifi setup with subs is not really suited for kickbass punch. This lives beyond the usual 80 Hz crossover, so the subs won’t even play that frequency range.

You could create a party setting that does let these frequencies though, let’s say until 120 or 150 Hz. That would make a big difference, but really the punch frequencies can easily extend even higher towards 250Hz or so.

Indeed. My party kickbass game has been upped considerably by the addition of couple of midbass enclosures running Eminence 12" 3012LF between 80-500Hz. No going back.

 

[jhaider]

I currently have 2 Ultimax 18" in the sealed PE flat pack enclosures powered by Crown amps. They do extend low, but there is no mid bass punch at all. I had a party a few months ago in the basement and Even at loud volumes, I'm totally missing tactile midbass punch.

That sounds more like an integration problem than a parts problem to me. How are you integrating the subs?

 

[Chrispy]

What speakers are you using the subs with? They're more responsible for mid bass, at least what I think of as mid bass. Modeling each driver might illuminate differences for your application. Why did you go sealed instead of ported?

 

[jmdesignz2]

It’s definitely a setup issue. Need to experiment with phase and position

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

First, measure your system! (Moving mic at MLP, near field, the works...)You can't fix an issue if you can't accurately and specifically define it in the first place.

If you believe that the problem is a lack of midbass output, what in the world is giving you the impression that going to Devastators (super low tuning ported alignment) would address that whatsoever??

I would bet that there is either a phase integration issue between your main speakers and your subs or it's caused by room acoustics. Remember that you can't boost your way out of a null... Going to subwoofer with even higher SPL output would literally accomplish nothing if it's placement/room-related or a phase cancellation.