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Perceptual Effects of Room Reflections

tuga

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Does this prove that mono listening assessments do not yield the same results as stereo?

 

Thomas savage

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Does this prove that mono listening assessments do not yield the same results as stereo?

No. It seems to suggest it's easier to assess a speaker in mono.

It looks to me they both say the same thing but stereo listening makes it harder to separate the speakers .

That's why you use mono , I'm assuming. Small sample to base anything to assertive on.

To me definitely not evidence to object to the testing of speakers in mono. The opposite in fact .
 

tuga

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No. It seems to suggest it's easier to assess a speaker in mono.

It looks to me they both say the same thing but stereo listening makes it harder to separate the speakers .

That's why you use mono , I'm assuming. Small sample to base anything to assertive on.

To me definitely not evidence to object to the testing of speakers in mono. The opposite in fact .
Since people listen to music in stereo over a pair of speakers I must vehemently disagree.
 

Thomas savage

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Since people listen to music in stereo over a pair of speakers I must vehemently disagree.
Well no they don't, most people at least don't .
So you're kinda double wrong there but of course your free to believe whatever you wish.

Why did you post the graph, did you think it supported your stance on this ? If it did you would of happily used it to support your idea but as it doesn't you reject it ?

I can't be certain but as far as I can tell the vast majority of speaker R&D now is going into single speakers , that's because most don't need true stereo as they don't sit with their head in a vice .

So even if you were correct it's mute .

Trifecta of wrong :D
 

tuga

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Well no they don't, most people at least don't .
So you're kinda double wrong there but of course your free to believe whatever you wish.

Why did you post the graph, did you think it supported your stance on this ? If it did you would of happily used it to support your idea but as it doesn't you reject it ?

I can't be certain but as far as I can tell the vast majority of speaker R&D now is going into single speakers , that's because most don't need true stereo as they don't sit with their head in a vice .

So even if you were correct it's mute .

Trifecta of wrong :D
I meant demanding audiophile people.
I don't care about the guy who listens to Spotify over an Amazon or an Ikea bluetooth speaker not the home-cinema crowd...
What do you estimate the percentage of audiophiles who owns 3.1 or 5.1 systems is?

And I still think it does support my stance that when listening to speakers in stereo people's opinion on the sound quality of speakers with different response and dispersion characteristics changes significantly, and because this is how people listen in their rooms it makes more sense to rate preference accordingly.

You are also free to believe whatever you wish by the way...
 

Thomas savage

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I meant demanding audiophile people.
I don't care about the guy who listens to Spotify over an Amazon or an Ikea bluetooth speaker not the home-cinema crowd...
What do you estimate the percentage of audiophiles who owns 3.1 or 5.1 systems is?

And I still think it does support my stance that when listening to speakers in stereo people's opinion on the sound quality of speakers with different response and dispersion characteristics changes significantly, and because this is how people listen in their rooms it makes more sense to rate preference accordingly.

You are also free to believe whatever you wish by the way...
No it doesn't make sense to rate preference this way as listening in stereo ( going by the research and this graph ) makes it harder to assess the speaker , however the actual result is consistent in both the mono test and stereo.

Why would you want to create a test scenario that hides the differences between speakers when you're trying to highlight the difference given as we see there's no change in the end result.

Your making something potentially less reliable for no reason.

The interesting thing about that graph is the electrostatics, in stereo they do close the gap while not changing the end result it's still interesting. I wonder if this would be so so if this was done blind. I don't think it would personally.
 

tuga

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We've wondered off topic , apologies.
I disagree.
Listen to one of your speakers in the iddle of the room; is this a better way to assess the Perceptual Effects of Room Reflections than listening in stereo with adequately-positioned speakers?
 

QMuse

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I disagree.
Listen to one of your speakers in the iddle of the room; is this a better way to assess the Perceptual Effects of Room Reflections than listening in stereo with adequately-positioned speakers?
No , that is the best way to listen to your music. Evaluating speaker with listening is similar to sweep measurements - you do it in mono because if you do it with stereo you would have a mess from which you wouldn't be abe to tell much. You should try making a measurement sweep in stereo and then it would become clear to you that your ears are facing the same problems when evaluating the speakers in stereo.
 

tuga

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No , that is the best way to listen to your music. Evaluating speaker with listening is similar to sweep measurements - you do it in mono because if you do it with stereo you would have a mess from which you wouldn't be abe to tell much. You should try making a measurement sweep in stereo and then it would become clear to you that your ears are facing the same problems when evaluating the speakers in stereo.
I understand the merits of mono for "measuring speaker performance" with one's ears (observation).
But the figure meantions "spatial quality".
What does it mean?
 

QMuse

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I understand the merits of mono for "measuring speaker performance" with one's ears (observation).
But the figure meantions "spatial quality".
What does it mean?
Ability of a single speaker to produce spatial effect. Some speakes manage to generate some spatial effect while others produce the effect of a sound coming from single point.
 

tuga

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Ability of a single speaker to produce spatial effect. Some speakes manage to generate some spatial effect while others produce the effect of a sound coming from single point.
The ability of a single speaker to produce spatial effect is none.
 

tuga

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I already offered my reply to that, no need to run in circles.
I am not satisfied. Perhaps because you rreply didn't answer my questions.

I am not able to find an answer in the good book either... Currently reading chapter 3.
 

QMuse

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I am not satisfied. Perhaps because you rreply didn't answer my questions.

I am not able to find an answer in the good book either... Currently reading chapter 3.
It seems to me you found the answer but you are refusing to accept it.
 

tuga

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It's not here:

But aren’t there qualities of a loudspeaker that only show up in stereo listening, because of the many subtle dimensions of “imaging”?
One can conceive of loudspeakers with grossly inferior spectral response and/or irregular off-axis performance generating asymmetries in left and right channel sounds.
So, possibly there are, but with competently designed loudspeakers the spatial effects we hear appear to be dominated by the information in the recordings themselves.
The important localization and sound- stage information is the responsibility of the recording engineer, not the loudspeaker, and loudspeakers with problems large enough to interfere with those intentions should be easily recognizable in technical measurements or from their gross timbral distortions.
For stereo, the first requirement is identical left and right loudspeakers and left-right symmetry in the room.
That requirement is not always met, in which case many forms of audible imperfections may be heard, and the reasons may not be obvious.
 

QMuse

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It's not here:

But aren’t there qualities of a loudspeaker that only show up in stereo listening, because of the many subtle dimensions of “imaging”?
One can conceive of loudspeakers with grossly inferior spectral response and/or irregular off-axis performance generating asymmetries in left and right channel sounds.
So, possibly there are, but with competently designed loudspeakers the spatial effects we hear appear to be dominated by the information in the recordings themselves.
The important localization and sound- stage information is the responsibility of the recording engineer, not the loudspeaker, and loudspeakers with problems large enough to interfere with those intentions should be easily recognizable in technical measurements or from their gross timbral distortions.
For stereo, the first requirement is identical left and right loudspeakers and left-right symmetry in the room.
That requirement is not always met, in which case many forms of audible imperfections may be heard, and the reasons may not be obvious.
When looking for an answer you need not only to open your eyes, but your mind as well. ;)
 

March Audio

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It's not here:

But aren’t there qualities of a loudspeaker that only show up in stereo listening, because of the many subtle dimensions of “imaging”?
One can conceive of loudspeakers with grossly inferior spectral response and/or irregular off-axis performance generating asymmetries in left and right channel sounds.
So, possibly there are, but with competently designed loudspeakers the spatial effects we hear appear to be dominated by the information in the recordings themselves.
The important localization and sound- stage information is the responsibility of the recording engineer, not the loudspeaker, and loudspeakers with problems large enough to interfere with those intentions should be easily recognizable in technical measurements or from their gross timbral distortions.
For stereo, the first requirement is identical left and right loudspeakers and left-right symmetry in the room.
That requirement is not always met, in which case many forms of audible imperfections may be heard, and the reasons may not be obvious.
Keep reading :)
 
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