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People who went down the ultra high sinad gear route what have you found?
- Thread starter Rainier939
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Yes it's a passive preamp and it's not ideal !
There are excellent DACs available these days with multiple inputs and balanced outputs and rotary knob volume control that will drive a Class D amp with balanced inputs very well. Topping is still quite amazing... To say nothing of RME and its now famous ADI 2 which is wonderful because of all its equalization possibilities, adjustable loudness which is great to use, etc. For my opinion the best choice today.
Apollon, BoXem and Audiophonics have some in their catalog that should suit you... I use a 15 year old Gemincore which gives me complete satisfaction (including after comparing it to large and excellent class ABs such as NAD for example 218 THX, Krell KSA 150, Grand Mos) and with my speakers which have 93 dB of efficiency I have no noise with my ear glued to the tweeter (and neither does that of my young nephew!)
I looked several times for a change (just the changite!) and I tried Purifi BoXem: no audible differences with my Gemincore... And when I look I really like the work of Apollon who is also European and whose range is very wide...
For the moment, I have sewn my pockets so as not to buy the new Burchardt subwoofer... because after all, I must one day or another either build myself two-way speakers: Altec 416B plus TAD horns... which are sleeping for years now... But the desire has passed me a little.
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Rainier939
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I was looking at the smsl d6s as a dac and a kit amp from soundimports home brand soundimpress.
I'm kinda hung up on these two
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www.soundimports.eu
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Seconde one is a kit and the other is finished and isn't sold as a kit.
hypex is a bit cleaner on the bench but icepower has more power.
Do I really need over 500 watts into 4 ohm though hahaha
No idea... I don't know the size of your listening room, the sensitivity of your speakers and the distance at which you listen... An acquaintance has a pair of Revel Salon 2s that he powers with a pair of Class D mono amps, Pascals, however, not renowned for the perfection of their measurements... and listening at home is beautiful... in a fairly small room but acoustically treated...I was looking at the smsl d6s as a dac and a kit amp from soundimports home brand soundimpress.
I'm kinda hung up on these two
Order SoundImpress HY502-2CH Stereo Amplifier | Ncore® | Powered by Hypex
Buy the HY502-2CH online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping ratesOrder SoundImpress DIY Stereo amplifier kit | Powered by ICEpower
Buy the ICE1200-2CH-Kit online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping rates
Seconde one is a kit and the other is finished and isn't sold as a kit.
hypex is a bit cleaner on the bench but icepower has more power.
Do I really need over 500 watts into 4 ohm though hahaha
My form of mind would always make me choose the amp best suited to the measurements whose power would be the most important for a given price... So by subjectivist temperament in my assessment of objective measurements I would choose NC 500, Nilai or Purifi. ..
Sokel
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I use the module of the second (as monos,but with heatshinks,etc) one for my lows (30-250Hz) and I wouldn't change them for nothing.I was looking at the smsl d6s as a dac and a kit amp from soundimports home brand soundimpress.
I'm kinda hung up on these two
Order SoundImpress HY502-2CH Stereo Amplifier | Ncore® | Powered by Hypex
Buy the HY502-2CH online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping ratesOrder SoundImpress DIY Stereo amplifier kit | Powered by ICEpower
Buy the ICE1200-2CH-Kit online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping rates
Seconde one is a kit and the other is finished and isn't sold as a kit.
hypex is a bit cleaner on the bench but icepower has more power.
Do I really need over 500 watts into 4 ohm though hahaha
(also measured in torture test here)
I have also tested them full range and they were just doing their job,nothing to stick out or miss.
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Rainier939
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- #26
Nilai and purifi are nice but they are damn near twice the price for a handfull of dBs extra sinadNo idea... I don't know the size of your listening room, the sensitivity of your speakers and the distance at which you listen... An acquaintance has a pair of Revel Salon 2s that he powers with a pair of Class D mono amps, Pascals, however, not renowned for the perfection of their measurements... and listening at home is beautiful... in a fairly small room but acoustically treated...
My form of mind would always make me choose the amp best suited to the measurements whose power would be the most important for a given price... So by subjectivist temperament in my assessment of objective measurements I would choose NC 500, Nilai or Purifi. ..
Yes of course !
This is why I insisted on the subjective nature of my choice among objective data to which I am nevertheless very attached... And speaking of the example of the Class D amplifier equipped with terrible 1500 watt Pascal modules to the measurements (sensitive to the load) but still delivering magnificent sound with a pair of Revel Salon 2...
Basically, you are of course right.
The links you posted have the NCore and ICEpower listed at 900 Euros. The Hypex Nilai500DIY Stereo is 1,225 Euros.
DIYClassD Nilai500DIY 250W stereo power amplifier kit
The DIYClassD Nilai500DIY 250W Stereo amplifer kit is easy to assemble and enables you to build a high-end stereo amplifier at a fraction of the costs
www.diyclassd.com
Here is a Purify amplifier for $1,125 (I don't know whether he ships to Europe, though):
Buckeye Amps
Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!
FYI, the Nilai is a kit, but it is very easy to put together. As long as you can read instructions and use a screwdriver, you are good to go. It took me less than an hour.
EDIT: I forget to mention that the Nilai kit does not come with a power cord (at least mine didn't). I have plenty of them laying around from old computers, so it was not an issue for me. If you need to buy one, they are inexpensive.
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You said you have 93dB sensitivity speakers, I don't think so.
The main benefit of getting these high SINAD amps is low noise. In your case that might be audible.
In general the amp you're using only becomes audible if you push it to the limits, so probably any decent amp is going to be good for your setup. The difference between 90 and 110 SINAD is "not audible" and "seriously, not audible at all"...
Waxx
Major Contributor
Most of that ultra high end is straight snake oil, so not worth it except to show off.
If you want a objective neutral amp, and preferable the best one, then Purifi and Hypex are sure shots, they are build by various builders (and not always as good as can be), so check the reviews here. Easy to use and well build are the higher end NAD devices (but also at higher end prices). You can get the same sound quality for far less, but the design and the functionality will also be less often, and you don't have the NAD name on your device (if you would care).
If you want colouration in your sound, you can do that in several ways and it gets more tricky. Some tube amps do it right for me, some class A amps also, and they are mostly not the most expensive you can get. I like Prima Luna as colouring amp. It measures bad, but it subjectivly sounds very good and they were reasonable priced when i bought one (I don't know now, i did not follow them up). Class A amps are often very expensive (pure marketing) and very weak in power, so you need to get the right speakers for it.
But if you don't know what i'm talking about, you probally want clean amps, and then Hypex and Purifi based amps are among the best, Benchmark is also very very good, but not so much power for it's price. And there are more (look at the review overview on this site). Most people prefer clean amps statisticly, and those who don't will know...
If you want a objective neutral amp, and preferable the best one, then Purifi and Hypex are sure shots, they are build by various builders (and not always as good as can be), so check the reviews here. Easy to use and well build are the higher end NAD devices (but also at higher end prices). You can get the same sound quality for far less, but the design and the functionality will also be less often, and you don't have the NAD name on your device (if you would care).
If you want colouration in your sound, you can do that in several ways and it gets more tricky. Some tube amps do it right for me, some class A amps also, and they are mostly not the most expensive you can get. I like Prima Luna as colouring amp. It measures bad, but it subjectivly sounds very good and they were reasonable priced when i bought one (I don't know now, i did not follow them up). Class A amps are often very expensive (pure marketing) and very weak in power, so you need to get the right speakers for it.
But if you don't know what i'm talking about, you probally want clean amps, and then Hypex and Purifi based amps are among the best, Benchmark is also very very good, but not so much power for it's price. And there are more (look at the review overview on this site). Most people prefer clean amps statisticly, and those who don't will know...
I wonder what is the noise level of the amplifiers in the KEF LS60 Wireless speakers? If anyone knows, please post. That would give me a reference point since I can hear a slight hiss when putting my ear next to the tweeter. As I previously noted, though, it is not audible to me at 1m. But, my room is not super quiet.
I think you need to choose an amp that SOUNDS GREAT when used in your own system, rather than be overwhelmed by measurements. Lots of amps measure well but that doesn't mean they'll suit your speakers or your room.
And would you consider adding "room correction DSP"? If so, you may be throwing out the window some of the accuracy you choose the amp for!
I was in your position a few years ago and was looking for a GREAT SOUNDING amp to power my own speakers in my own room. I bought or borrowed numerous solid state amps of Class A, AB and D and with power ratings of between 12 and 250 watts - my speakers are easy to drive and not greedy for power, so all these amps were powerful enough. It was amazing how much difference there was in sound quality - and results bore little correlation to their measurements.
Good luck, but if you really want GREAT SOUND, you need to arrange a home demo or ideally a week-long loan. Listening in a showroom with different speakers from your own, is likely to end in a less than ideal choice.
I might guess 85 at the worst and 100 at best, but that's a wild guess.
In my previous comment I might modify it to mean "not audible' means "unless you put your ear up to it" and "not audible at all" means even if you do put your ear up to it.
I think it's good news when the baseline for good amp performance is in that range.
You're on the right track, but a lot of pro amps aren't that great. Lots of pro amps suck lemons. The circuit designs are just junk. I would not use a Crown or a QSC, very, very generally speaking. Yamaha's old series such as the P2500/3500/5000S would be just fine, and are under $500 used for almost any of them.
To the original question, the "low SINAD route" is a road to nowhere. Once you're at a certain level of "no hiss" from the SNR component, it has exactly zero utility in describing anything about sound quality. It's just the wrong measurement to demonstrate anything meaningful about sound.
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Rainier939
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They are true 93db/2.83v/1m. I designed them myself. They are not perfect but I like the sound. It can play loud with ease and that's what I designed them to do
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Rainier939
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Your link doesn't include vat. Mine do so that's 21% more sadly. I do not get that nilai stereo kit amp. It's power supply limited. They put one supply is that is meant to drive only one module and drive 2 with it.The links you posted have the NCore and ICEpower listed at 900 Euros. The Hypex Nilai500DIY Stereo is 1,225 Euros.
DIYClassD Nilai500DIY 250W stereo power amplifier kit
The DIYClassD Nilai500DIY 250W Stereo amplifer kit is easy to assemble and enables you to build a high-end stereo amplifier at a fraction of the costs
Here is a Purify amplifier for $1,125 (I don't know whether he ships to Europe, though):
Buckeye Amps
Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!www.buckeyeamp.com
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Waxx
Major Contributor
Your crossover looks ok but has high impendance peaks, which means that even if the speaker has a relative high sensivity, you will need an amp with a few hundred watts to drive it as that is a difficult speaker to drive. Not as extreme as some notorious ones but i still would suggest at least 200w/4R, preferable more. It's not to go loud, but to make sure the amp can overcome those impendance peaks without distorting. That Nilay is top of the line diy, but a prebuild Ncore of the older generations can be good enough, and there are amps like that of 250w for half that price like the Audiophonics AP300-S250NC. Their sinad is already in the "in reality it does not matter anymore" region. You won't really hear the difference. Icepower is good, but not at that level, not even at the old Ncore quality yet.
AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC Power Amplifier Ncore NC252MP
The Audiophonics AP300-S250NC is a stereo amplifier based on a Hypex Ncore NC252MP amplifier module. It is ideal for providing a significant power reserve (2x250W @ 4Ω) without sacrificing sound reproduction quality.
www.audiophonics.fr
This one is not tested, but many of Audiophonics are, and they are on published spec (or very close) in those tests here (see list). I have a smaller version of this amplifier, actually 2, driving my main system with an active dsp crossover.
High impedance means the opposite: you need less current to reach the same output voltage, and thus less power (given P = I * V ). Lowest impedance is just below 6 Ohm, so no issue for any halfway serious amp.
Do you have measurements of the sensitivity? Some speakers have an actual sensitivity several dB below their reported values.
I'd get the NCore. I'm running NC400s (200/400/550W in 8/4/2 ohm) and I doubt I ever need more power than that.I was looking at the smsl d6s as a dac and a kit amp from soundimports home brand soundimpress.
I'm kinda hung up on these two
Order SoundImpress HY502-2CH Stereo Amplifier | Ncore® | Powered by Hypex
Buy the HY502-2CH online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping ratesOrder SoundImpress DIY Stereo amplifier kit | Powered by ICEpower
Buy the ICE1200-2CH-Kit online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping rates
Seconde one is a kit and the other is finished and isn't sold as a kit.
hypex is a bit cleaner on the bench but icepower has more power.
Do I really need over 500 watts into 4 ohm though hahaha
Last edited:
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