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[Mnyb]

See how long you can enjoy the sterilized sound of Bruno's Kii speakers for, I've tried a few times 1/2hr max for me.


Because you'll get verbally raped if you did.

I don't know of any designer worth his salt that goes into production even if it's SINAD is the best ever, without listening to what they've designed first to see if they like it. If it were the case we'd all own Topping D90SE dacs and Topping LA90 amps, but we don't do we??

That has nothing to do with SINAD , there are a lot more to an actual product than raw performance.

I would possibly live with the D90SE DAC but I’ve already have an old D70 for my headphone rig that still works just fine so I’m not up for a replacement. When that happens I probably get a combined headphone amp and DAC.
When I got the D70 I already had my Violelectric headphone amp ( it seems to work forever good quality ).
DAC’s are truly transparent for human listeners these days I would chose from other criteria than just SINAD
( we have a whole tread for people who are delusional and don’t believe this )

The LA90 is simply to small the most important spec of an power amp is simply power
Topping does not have a stellar reputation for quality regarding thier amps so I would be hesitant. I would get any of the good hypex or purify options.

But actually I just ordered a pair of KEF ls60 and KC92 after selling my Meridian stuff.
I have no idea what DAC’s they use or how the amps perform inside those the end result is good thou.

And re speakers never heard the Kii’s and if they sound bad to anyone it’s not due the amps but rather the acoustical performance and voicing of them .

 

[kemmler3D]

Other forums I'm in, members love both the subjective and objective, as you can draw parallels between the two, if you read between the lines especially the subjective lines.

Well... certainly. If you can hear it, you can measure it. It is always interesting to see something that should (or shouldn't) be audible in the measurements and then see how it sounds. We don't reject the subjective descriptions here. It's when one gets mixed up with the other that we freak out. @MattHooper is someone who walks on both sides comfortably and I don't think he finds ASR to be (too) hostile.

I will say that most members here don't like needing to interpret squishy subjective descriptions very much. Ultimately a whole paragraph of how the highs sparkle or whatever can be summed up in three or four lines on a frequency response chart, with less ambiguity. Less poetry too, but for some that is a bonus.

I see some value in subjective reports, but let me put it this way. You can't throw a rock without hitting someone's subjective review of audio gear on the internet. Cold hard facts are hard to come by, and IMO much more valuable. ASR focuses on measurements and graphs because they're simply a better basis for decision-making.

There is also a lot of nonsense about audio on the internet. Regardless of where you fall on the subjective / objective question, I am sure you have seen some real wacky BS out there from time to time. So the attitude is that we have to nip that stuff in the bud.

Don't take it personally, there are a handful of folks on this forum who pretty much nip buds as a hobby. It's all in the spirit of helping people make better decisions, even if the advice clashes with what you find elsewhere.

 

[Killingbeans]

Other forums I'm in, members love both the subjective and objective, as you can draw parallels between the two, if you read between the lines especially the subjective lines.

Most other forums don't care one bit about causality. And when they finally look at the effects and "draw parallels", it's actually just useless correlation.

Doesn't help that opinion, hypnosis and theory are being treated as the same thing.

It makes for some wonderful communities where nobody's wrong, and everything is just exchanges of impressions and the associated emotions. The downside is that people, who are genuinely interested in getting to the core of things, are forced to run around in circles forever and ever getting nowhere. ASR is largely a safe haven from that.

 

[goryu]

The bottom line is subjective opinions are not facts. They have zero probative value. Here, they are just noise. Let me put it simply: on this site, most people here don't care about opinions- they don't find value in them. Some people find it hard to accept that their opinions are not of value to others- they become petty and insulting, their bruised egos have difficulty dealing with the thought that their opinions are mundane and disregarded. They have to be "right" yet they have no evidence, no facts, to support their claims. They have stumbled into objective reality and it hurts. I would encourage those who can't handle the truth to seek the warmth and comfort of a subjectivist forum where people are free to spout whatever nonsense they wish, unchallenged. Where facts, evidence and science are dirty words. Your ego will thank you. You're welcome.

 

[CT Man]

Well... certainly. If you can hear it, you can measure it. It is always interesting to see something that should (or shouldn't) be audible in the measurements and then see how it sounds. We don't reject the subjective descriptions here. It's when one gets mixed up with the other that we freak out. @MattHooper is someone who walks on both sides comfortably and I don't think he finds ASR to be (too) hostile.

I will say that most members here don't like needing to interpret squishy subjective descriptions very much. Ultimately a whole paragraph of how the highs sparkle or whatever can be summed up in three or four lines on a frequency response chart, with less ambiguity. Less poetry too, but for some that is a bonus.

I see some value in subjective reports, but let me put it this way. You can't throw a rock without hitting someone's subjective review of audio gear on the internet. Cold hard facts are hard to come by, and IMO much more valuable. ASR focuses on measurements and graphs because they're simply a better basis for decision-making.

There is also a lot of nonsense about audio on the internet. Regardless of where you fall on the subjective / objective question, I am sure you have seen some real wacky BS out there from time to time. So the attitude is that we have to nip that stuff in the bud.

Don't take it personally, there are a handful of folks on this forum who pretty much nip buds as a hobby. It's all in the spirit of helping people make better decisions, even if the advice clashes with what you find elsewhere.

I'm not much of a techie, but this is how I think about it. Measurements of the electronics are very useful, and in general it's pretty easy to go way beyond audibility in the chain from analog or digital source/DAC to preamp to amp. It's easy to discard all the nonsense about cables, power conditioners and related voodoo. It's your business if you prefer tubes, but that's not where ASR can be useful. It's perfectly reasonable to sacrifice some state of the art specs for convenience features once baseline specs are achieved.

After that, matching amp to speakers needs some care but is also pretty easy to do in most cases. Speaker measurements can identify bad speakers, but subjective factors come into play when considering the way capable speakers at specific locations interact with the room at the listening position (or positions). Positioning, room treatment and EQ start with measurements but it's best to then dial in subjective adjustments. Objective and subjective factors mix when considering an individual's hearing and choice of music genres combined with taste in SPL, FR, soundstage and imaging. Speaker, room and these personal factors necessarily mix the objective and subjective, and these are by far the most important part of the audio chain once baseline specs are achieved. Measurements provide useful information for getting this right, and can point to the type of speaker best suited to an individual use case, but finding the best solution for your particular situation is mostly beyond of the scope of what ASR can do.

 

[kemmler3D]

It makes for some wonderful communities where nobody's wrong, and everything is just exchanges of impressions and the associated emotions. The downside is that people, who are genuinely interested in getting to the core of things, are forced to run around in circles forever and ever getting nowhere. ASR is largely a safe haven from that.

You've put it better than I could.