Peace-of-Mind Digital Chain: SACD Transport with I2S Output—What Are My Options?

[Descartes]

Depends on your speakers and what sort of SPL you want to listen at!

KEF Reference Meta One!

 

[kikiri boo]

IIUC - Il Topping D900 in modalità DSD non utilizza il formato PCM I2S (logicamente), ma il formato DSD (canali L/R separati, erroneamente chiamato anche I2S):

View attachment 498357
Quindi stai cercando un'uscita DSD.

A parte questo, se non ricordo male, i lettori SACD non erano ufficialmente autorizzati a riprodurre il DSD a piena risoluzione in formato digitale. Dubito che troverai un dispositivo ufficiale con uscita digitale. Solo i lettori SACD modificati che hanno il bus DSD disponibile internamente (come ad esempio l'Oppo https://www.oppomod.com/pdf/i2s-board-installation-guide.pdf ) lo consentono.

Ciao, a quale modello Oppo ti riferisci?

 

[kikiri boo]

Ciao, a quale modello Oppo ti riferisci?

Hi, which Oppo model are you referring to?

 

[DAP chap]

... for some reasons, the Japanese haven't fully embrace multichannel audio.

Many New Yorkers, Chicagoans, and Angelinos haven't either. Many even partially embraced, although it's fine for video.

 

[thcdru2k]

SACD player analog out to an amp has a real limitation as there is no DSP integration so no room correction. You would also have to get quite creative about subwoofer integration. SACD via HDMI to an AVR gets converted to PCM anyways.

SACD without DSP (possible creative sub-integration) vs CD/XRCD/HDCD with DSP and sub-integration. This would be the appropriate blind sq test.

 

[Roland68]

SACD player analog out to an amp has a real limitation as there is no DSP integration so no room correction. You would also have to get quite creative about subwoofer integration. SACD via HDMI to an AVR gets converted to PCM anyways.

SACD without DSP (possible creative sub-integration) vs CD/XRCD/HDCD with DSP and sub-integration. This would be the appropriate blind sq test.

That's not entirely correct.
Some of the older Sony SACD and DVD/SACD players with analog 5.1 outputs could control the delays, volume, and size of the individual speakers, subwoofer, and its integration themselves, so that only amplifiers with volume control were needed, without any additional digital processing.
This all happened in the DSP on the digital side.

Some Sony players could also send the digital data in full resolution via i.LINK®, IEEE1394 (FireWire®) to certain Sony and Pioneer amplifiers, for example, the Sony TA-DA9000ES and Pioneer VSA-AX10i.

Unfortunately, I don't remember how it worked with other manufacturers.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Almost all important new releases are also available on SACD, and the prices for new, old, and used SACDs speak volumes.

Sorry to jump in on something that's a month old but what are you actually talking about? I haven't seen a new SACD of anything that approaches cultural relevance by 1,000 miles in 15 years. Even someone like Peter Gabriel who was a big champion of the format didn't bother releasing his only album of the past 20 years, on SACD, preferring hi-res PCM & Atmos on bluray instead.

 

[Scytales]

Some of the older Sony SACD and DVD/SACD players with analog 5.1 outputs could control the delays, volume, and size of the individual speakers, subwoofer, and its integration themselves, so that only amplifiers with volume control were needed, without any additional digital processing.
This all happened in the DSP on the digital side.

Some Sony players could also send the digital data in full resolution via i.LINK®, IEEE1394 (FireWire®) to certain Sony and Pioneer amplifiers, for example, the Sony TA-DA9000ES and Pioneer VSA-AX10i.

Unfortunately, I don't remember how it worked with other manufacturers.

Sony made two multichannel SACD decoders that were able to trim channel levels and do some basic bass management and channel down-mixing: the CXD2752 and the CXD2753. This chips were used by many other manufacturers in their SACD-capable players (Marantz, Denon and Pioneer notably), although it seems to me that they not always used the full capabilities of this chips (as I found after having tested the Pioneer DV-868AVi compared to the Sony SCD-XA9000ES). By themselves, these Sony chips were not able to control delays. For that purpose, Sony made a dedicated memory controller, the CXD9722, that was only used in the SCD-XA9000ES.

Inside the Sony TA-DA9000ES, DSD received through the custom i-Link (Firewire) digital link was decimated into PCM by Sony CXD9742 chips in any use cases.

Philips also made a multichannel SACD decoder far more potent than Sony's: the SAA7893 'Furore 2'. This chip was capable of channels down-mixing, bass-management with several different bass cut-off frequencies and attenuation slopes, level control from 0 to -90 dB and delays up to 65 ms. The SAA7893 could also accept 6 channels PCM data but, ironically, had less processing features with PCM data input than DSD data: only attenuation and delays!

It should also be mentionned that Denon designed custom processings for some of its late DVD/SACD players such as the DVD3930, because these players did not use off-the-shelf audio processing chips but FPGAs. Measurements should make it possible to determine whether these players were capable of directly processing DSD data by digital signal processing or whether they first converted it to PCM.

 

[Scytales]

Sorry to jump in on something that's a month old but what are you actually talking about? I haven't seen a new SACD of anything that approaches cultural relevance by 1,000 miles in 15 years. Even someone like Peter Gabriel who was a big champion of the format didn't bother releasing his only album of the past 20 years, on SACD, preferring hi-res PCM & Atmos on bluray instead.

Well, I hope classical music is considered culturally relevant, because it is in this genre that some music labels proceed to release new recordings on SACDs. I very much suspect it is primarily because classical music is where multichannel really took off and SACD is perfectly suited for multichannel music distribution.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Well, I hope classical music is considered culturally relevant, because it is in this genre that some music labels proceed to release new recordings on SACDs. I very much suspect it is primarily because classical music is where multichannel really took off and SACD is perfectly suited for multichannel music distribution.

I love classical music, I'm a classically trained flautist, but niche recordings of classical music that sell a couple thousand copies aren't really "important" or culturally relevant, no.

Betamax cassettes were manufactured until 2016, but it was generally considered a dead format by the early 90s when major movie studios stopped releasing films on the format. It would have been very odd to say that Betamax was a thriving format in 2007 because news stations with old beta camcorders could still get cassettes for those machines.

SACD's in a similar place - unless you're immersed in a very particular niche corner of the recorded music world, SACD's been effectively dead for 15 or 20 years, with the overwhelming majority of high-resolution/surround music migrating to bluray.

 

[Roland68]

I love classical music, I'm a classically trained flautist, but niche recordings of classical music that sell a couple thousand copies aren't really "important" or culturally relevant, no.

Betamax cassettes were manufactured until 2016, but it was generally considered a dead format by the early 90s when major movie studios stopped releasing films on the format. It would have been very odd to say that Betamax was a thriving format in 2007 because news stations with old beta camcorders could still get cassettes for those machines.

SACD's in a similar place - unless you're immersed in a very particular niche corner of the recorded music world, SACD's been effectively dead for 15 or 20 years, with the overwhelming majority of high-resolution/surround music migrating to bluray.

However, the annually increasing sales figures for vinyl, CDs, and SACDs tell a different story.
You might not like it, and it might be met with incomprehension, but that's the way it is.

The sales growth of these media has been greater than that of all music streaming services combined for the past seven to eight years, percentage-wise, of course.
The demand for SACD players continues to rise, just like for CD players and turntables. Used prices for many devices have increased dramatically; in some cases, they have doubled or even tripled.

I always waited before buying SACDs, and now used SACDs are sometimes three times as expensive, or more, than they were ten years ago.

 

[SuicideSquid]

However, the annually increasing sales figures for vinyl, CDs, and SACDs tell a different story.
You might not like it, and it might be met with incomprehension, but that's the way it is.

The sales growth of these media has been greater than that of all music streaming services combined for the past seven to eight years, percentage-wise, of course.
The demand for SACD players continues to rise, just like for CD players and turntables. Used prices for many devices have increased dramatically; in some cases, they have doubled or even tripled.

Do you have a citation for that claim?

The only numbers I could find do not have SACDs as a separate number, but show annual physical media sales sitting at around $1.3 billion consistently for the past few years, with a gradual shift from CDs to Vinyl, and non-CD/Vinyl physical media (which would include blu-rays, DVD-audio, cassettes, and SACDs) representing less than 2% of that total. 25 years ago, physical media sales (mostly CDs) accounted for $14 billion in revenue - a decrease in revenue for physical media sales of over 90%.

Streaming revenue, on the other hand, now represents about 70% of all music industry revenue, matching the physical media peak (again not adjusting for inflation, adjusted for inflation overall industry revenue is still way down from its 2000/2001 peak) of $14 billion - more than 10x all physical media sales and more than 700x the revenue of non CD/Vinyl physical media.

 

[Joe Smith]

We went round this corner a month or so ago...I get it...some people are really into SACDs, still. I love classical - it's a major genre for me - but Redbook CDs work just fine for me, and streaming. I gather there are still many SACDs being released, I just would not want to be limited to focusing on that output for the slight benefit in audio quality. Different for people who are into multichannel, I get that difference...

 

[Karl_in_Chicago]

I love classical music, I'm a classically trained flautist, but niche recordings of classical music that sell a couple thousand copies aren't really "important" or culturally relevant, no.

Betamax cassettes were manufactured until 2016, but it was generally considered a dead format by the early 90s when major movie studios stopped releasing films on the format. It would have been very odd to say that Betamax was a thriving format in 2007 because news stations with old beta camcorders could still get cassettes for those machines.

SACD's in a similar place - unless you're immersed in a very particular niche corner of the recorded music world, SACD's been effectively dead for 15 or 20 years, with the overwhelming majority of high-resolution/surround music migrating to bluray.

So to continue the (odd, to me) Betamax parallel . . . SACD's died/will die out because you can't get pR0n on them! Back on topic I have to disagree with your premise as I do see new SACD releases that appeal to ME and I've never really considered myself a "niche" music fan. Perhaps it's time I reevaluate myself.

 

[Roland68]

Do you have a citation for that claim?

The only numbers I could find do not have SACDs as a separate number, but show annual physical media sales sitting at around $1.3 billion consistently for the past few years, with a gradual shift from CDs to Vinyl, and non-CD/Vinyl physical media (which would include blu-rays, DVD-audio, cassettes, and SACDs) representing less than 2% of that total. 25 years ago, physical media sales (mostly CDs) accounted for $14 billion in revenue - a decrease in revenue for physical media sales of over 90%.

Streaming revenue, on the other hand, now represents about 70% of all music industry revenue, matching the physical media peak (again not adjusting for inflation, adjusted for inflation overall industry revenue is still way down from its 2000/2001 peak) of $14 billion - more than 10x all physical media sales and more than 700x the revenue of non CD/Vinyl physical media.

I got the information from worldwide paid statistics, which are available for all industries. They are very reliable, even for forecasts for the coming years, but unfortunately also very expensive. I'm not allowed to publish the data from them; the contractual penalties are simply too high.

Your figures, however, only apply to the USA.
In 2023, worldwide sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD exceeded US$5.1 billion, representing 17.8 percent of the total global market.
This revenue increased further in 2024 and 2025.
In the EU, sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD amounted to approximately €1.3 billion in 2024.
The share of streaming media in the EU has now reached 77.4%, while the share of vinyl, CD, and SACD has risen to approximately 22%.

Sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD in the US reached $1.381 billion in 2025, an increase of approximately 7% compared to the previous year. SACD sales saw a significant 16% increase year-over-year, although this still represents only tens of millions of dollars in sales and a small fraction of CD sales. Nevertheless, it's a 16% increase in a single year.

These sales figures only include current new productions; used sales in the high three-figure millions are additional.

 

[Mnyb]

SACD player analog out to an amp has a real limitation as there is no DSP integration so no room correction. You would also have to get quite creative about subwoofer integration. SACD via HDMI to an AVR gets converted to PCM anyways.

SACD without DSP (possible creative sub-integration) vs CD/XRCD/HDCD with DSP and sub-integration. This would be the appropriate blind sq test.

Yes to my knowledge it’s impossible to do DSP on DSD in its native form ( nor should you want to ) it’s always entails some conversion to an internal PCM format to make the math possible to do all these software filters etc .

This it not a problem ( proper conversion between lossless formats is transparent by definition), but it sort of defeats the sales pitch of DSD .

I think subwoofers and room correction and active speakers are essential so I convert my few DSD files to PCM as soon as possible in the chain . It’s a format among others if the music only exist in this format fine I’ll buy the recording.

I realise that if you have many DSD discs your sorta stuck with playing them with a player due to its copy protection ( there are a few exceptions like som old PlayStation’s that could rip them with some hack ) .
I’m all for hacking your players for a non crippled digital out I would search for a solution that gave me hirez PCM channels as output, these are more useful as further processing can be done with them .

That was a no go for me at the start of DSD no proper digital out . I instead invested in DVD-A that’s also very dead format now it also went down the drain .

 

[SuicideSquid]

I got the information from worldwide paid statistics, which are available for all industries. They are very reliable, even for forecasts for the coming years, but unfortunately also very expensive. I'm not allowed to publish the data from them; the contractual penalties are simply too high.

Your figures, however, only apply to the USA.
In 2023, worldwide sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD exceeded US$5.1 billion, representing 17.8 percent of the total global market.
This revenue increased further in 2024 and 2025.
In the EU, sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD amounted to approximately €1.3 billion in 2024.
The share of streaming media in the EU has now reached 77.4%, while the share of vinyl, CD, and SACD has risen to approximately 22%.

Sales of vinyl, CD, and SACD in the US reached $1.381 billion in 2025, an increase of approximately 7% compared to the previous year. SACD sales saw a significant 16% increase year-over-year, although this still represents only tens of millions of dollars in sales and a small fraction of CD sales. Nevertheless, it's a 16% increase in a single year.

These sales figures only include current new productions; used sales in the high three-figure millions are additional.

I note that you have not quoted SACD sales figures but combined figures for all physical media. Your claim specifically related to SACD sales. You say SACD "represents tens of millions of dollars" and has increased by 16%, but you've provided no citation and no actual hard numbers, and given the very small number of annual physical SACD releases, I simply do not believe your assertion, absent some actual evidence. "I'm not allowed to show the numbers" - sorry, I'm not accepting that.

Also it makes no sense to say "streaming media in the EU has now reached 77.4% while the share of vinyl, CD, and SACD has risen to approximately 22%". Two numbers that add up to 100% cannot both rise.

The simple fact is that SACDs represent a niche within a niche. Your original assertion that "almost all important releases are available on SACD" is just flatly wrong. Of the tens of thousands of albums released physically annually, only a few hundred classical and jazz recordings are pressed on SACD, and most of those are very limited runs.

The assertion that millions of SACDs are actively circulating in the used market is also just patently absurd. Best estimates I've seen for total number of SACDs ever produced since the format was introduced in 1999 is at most in the tens of millions.

The assertion that "demand for SACD players continues to rise" is belied by the fact that very few SACD players are manufactured anymore. You also keep saying these physical media numbers "continue to rise" despite the fact that total physical media sales are down 90% over the last 25 years. That there's been a slight recovery in physical media sales over the past couple of years thanks to the resurgence of vinyl does not represent a long-term trend.

I'm not sure what the purpose of making these assertions is, either. If the music that's relevant to you is being released on SACD and you're happy buying those SACDs, what does it matter than 99% of new releases are not released on SACD and most people don't care or are completely ignorant of the format's existence?

If I personally had my way everyone would still be buying CDs, rather than streaming or pirating or buying vinyl, but I can accept reality and acknowledge that this is not the way most people choose to get their music anymore, and several orders of magnitude more people are making and buying conventional CDs vs. SACDs.

 

[Mnyb]

I note that you have not quoted SACD sales figures but combined figures for all physical media. Your claim specifically related to SACD sales. You say SACD "represents tens of millions of dollars" and has increased by 16%, but you've provided no citation and no actual hard numbers, and given the very small number of annual physical SACD releases, I simply do not believe your assertion, absent some actual evidence. "I'm not allowed to show the numbers" - sorry, I'm not accepting that.

Also it makes no sense to say "streaming media in the EU has now reached 77.4% while the share of vinyl, CD, and SACD has risen to approximately 22%". Two numbers that add up to 100% cannot both rise.

The simple fact is that SACDs represent a niche within a niche. Your original assertion that "almost all important releases are available on SACD" is just flatly wrong. Of the tens of thousands of albums released physically annually, only a few hundred classical and jazz recordings are pressed on SACD, and most of those are very limited runs.

The assertion that millions of SACDs are actively circulating in the used market is also just patently absurd. Best estimates I've seen for total number of SACDs ever produced since the format was introduced in 1999 is at most in the tens of millions.

The assertion that "demand for SACD players continues to rise" is belied by the fact that very few SACD players are manufactured anymore. You also keep saying these physical media numbers "continue to rise" despite the fact that total physical media sales are down 90% over the last 25 years. That there's been a slight recovery in physical media sales over the past couple of years thanks to the resurgence of vinyl does not represent a long-term trend.

I'm not sure what the purpose of making these assertions is, either. If the music that's relevant to you is being released on SACD and you're happy buying those SACDs, what does it matter than 99% of new releases are not released on SACD and most people don't care or are completely ignorant of the format's existence?

If I personally had my way everyone would still be buying CDs, rather than streaming or pirating or buying vinyl, but I can accept reality and acknowledge that this is not the way most people choose to get their music anymore, and several orders of magnitude more people are making and buying conventional CDs vs. SACDs.

Yes i havent seen a new SACD for sale anywhere in decades ? Where are they ? CD , i can get them online or in 2 brick and mortar stores in my small town ?