Peace-of-Mind Digital Chain: SACD Transport with I2S Output—What Are My Options?

[atomek]

In the never-ending pursuit of perfect playback quality, I’m starting — in my older age — to consider switching from streaming to physical media. For a moment I thought about LPs; I like the playback ritual, but the physical limitations of the format affect sound quality too much. So I began looking into other potential formats, and I think SACD would suit me best (not only because of the format itself, but also because I suspect SACD mastering may be more geared toward good stereo than casual listening on a phone).

I’d like to buy a Topping D900 DAC with optical and I2S inputs. And that raises the question: what transport? There are players with an I2S output, but they’re extremely expensive — I’d be looking for something up to $2,000 if possible. From what I’ve read, I2S can carry a lossless signal to the DAC, which may have some impact on quality (I’d like to avoid the player converting to 16-bit/44 kHz). I know I probably won’t hear the difference, but for peace of mind I’d like to keep the entire D/A conversion in an external DAC.

Based on my research so far, I’ve basically found only one option: an Oppo UDP-203 plus an I2S mod — but that player has been out of production for a long time, and I’m a bit worried about support and long-term reliability. Do you know of any other options, or could you recommend something as an SACD transport?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

In the never-ending pursuit of perfect playback quality, I’m starting — in my older age — to consider switching from streaming to physical media. For a moment I thought about LPs; I like the playback ritual, but the physical limitations of the format affect sound quality too much. So I began looking into other potential formats, and I think SACD would suit me best (not only because of the format itself, but also because I suspect SACD mastering may be more geared toward good stereo than casual listening on a phone).

I’d like to buy a Topping D900 DAC with optical and I2S inputs. And that raises the question: what transport? There are players with an I2S output, but they’re extremely expensive — I’d be looking for something up to $2,000 if possible. From what I’ve read, I2S can carry a lossless signal to the DAC, which may have some impact on quality (I’d like to avoid the player converting to 16-bit/44 kHz). I know I probably won’t hear the difference, but for peace of mind I’d like to keep the entire D/A conversion in an external DAC.

Based on my research so far, I’ve basically found only one option: an Oppo UDP-203 plus an I2S mod — but that player has been out of production for a long time, and I’m a bit worried about support and long-term reliability. Do you know of any other options, or could you recommend something as an SACD transport?

I2S has no benefit over S/PDIF or USB. It has potentially far more issues than either of them since it's not a standard and there are no formal specifications for connections etc.

Given USB and S/PDIF done properly will sound identical to I2S (assuming you get it to work properly), build a chain on those, not I2S.

 

[atomek]

I2S has no benefit over S/PDIF or USB. It has potentially far more issues than either of them since it's not a standard and there are no formal specifications for connections etc.

Given USB and S/PDIF done properly will sound identical to I2S (assuming you get it to work properly), build a chain on those, not I2S.

Thanks but I want I2S strictly for SACD to ensure that the signal will not be converted to PCM or (even worse) the CD layer will be read when connecting via S/PDIF (which might be typical behaviour). I'm looking for a recommendation for I2S capable transport and I'd like to not open a discussion that the DSD64 vs PCM sound is indistinguishable (I know and I can accept this). I wan't to use Topping D900 (also for other reasons like 12v trigger and great measurments, it supports two I2S pinouts for better compatibility), I'm looking for a recommendations for SACD transport with I2S output for it.

 

[phofman]

IIUC - Topping D900 in DSD mode does not use the PCM I2S format (logically) , but DSD format (separate L/R channels, incorrectly called I2S too):

So you are looking for DSD output.

Apart of that - IIRC SACD players officially were not allowed to output the full-resolution DSD in digital format. I doubt you will find an official device with the digital output. Only hacked SACD players which happen to have the DSD bus available internally (like the Oppo e.g. https://www.oppomod.com/pdf/i2s-board-installation-guide.pdf)

 

[Mart68]

I'd abandon the plan to get a separate DAC and just get a SACD player and use the analogue outputs into any competent amp - that will give you signal fidelity all the way to the loudspeakers.

 

[ahofer]

I would put your SACD preference to a blind test before committing yourself.

 

[Jim T]

I2S has no benefit over S/PDIF or USB. It has potentially far more issues than either of them since it's not a standard and there are no formal specifications for connections etc.

Given USB and S/PDIF done properly will sound identical to I2S (assuming you get it to work properly), build a chain on those, not I2S.

I2S is for delivery of DSD from a player to a Capable DAC. I am wondering how many unsuspecting souls who buy these Sony BluRay players who think they are actually playing back their SACDs are actually hearing PCM? It is sad that Sony can't support their own creation with a $1K SACD player.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I2S is for delivery of DSD from a player to a Capable DAC. I am wondering how many unsuspecting souls who buy these Sony BluRay players who think they are actually playing back their SACDs are actually hearing PCM? It is sad that Sony can't support their own creation with a $1K SACD player.

Which is why @Mart68 suggested using the analogue outputs of the SACD player, rather than a standalone DAC since it avoids all the I2S nonsense and the risk that a DAC will convert via PCM

 

[Jim T]

Which is why @Mart68 suggested using the analogue outputs of the SACD player, rather than a standalone DAC since it avoids all the I2S nonsense and the risk that a DAC will convert via PCM

PS Audio has them, but they are not cheap. Seems like a lot of mystery around I2S and HDMI. Sad that all the new plwyers are over a grand now. I just ordered a Shanling 1.3 and hope I am not disappointed.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks but I want I2S strictly for SACD to ensure that the signal will not be converted to PCM or (even worse) the CD layer will be read when connecting via S/PDIF (which might be typical behaviour). I'm looking for a recommendation for I2S capable transport and I'd like to not open a discussion that the DSD64 vs PCM sound is indistinguishable (I know and I can accept this). I wan't to use Topping D900 (also for other reasons like 12v trigger and great measurments, it supports two I2S pinouts for better compatibility), I'm looking for a recommendations for SACD transport with I2S output for it.

SACD players that output the DSD stream via the i2s output don't exist due to copy protection regulations.

As @Jim T mentioned, there is PS Audio, but aside from the approximately €10,000 for the drive, I suspect that the DSD stream is only output to the PS Audio DAC in a protected state.

A second option is older Oppo players for which a mod in the form of an add-on board is available. This board extracts the DSD signal from the SACD via HDMI and outputs it via i2s.

A third option is a SACD-capable Blu-ray player with an HDMI output (analog or other digital outputs are irrelevant) and an additional external box/board that extracts the DSD signal from the HDMI output and outputs it via i2s. There are several threads on this topic; search for "HDMI to i2s extractor."

 

[Roland68]

According to the manufacturer, the Onix Zenith XST20 outputs the DSD stream of the SACD via all digital outputs, including I2S, except USB.
Please note that this is a Chinese device developed and manufactured by Shanling and has absolutely no connection to the British manufacturer ONIX.

 

[Joe Smith]

So, broader question - Isn't SACD pretty dead as a format for new releases? Do you have a SACD library, or is it your intention to track down individual past releases?

I have two players that are SACD-capable, and frankly, could never hear a whit of difference from CD Redbook or high-format streaming. Just seems like you may be very limited in what you can play via this source?

 

[ahofer]

I had all my SACD recordings ripped (via the playstation hack) and added to my music server. Haven't looked back, and don't buy the format anymore.

 

[jcarys]

Sorry to add to the pile advising against this. I have two players - a Sony and Oppo Bluray/UHD - that can output DSD over HDMI to be converted at the receiver in my case. You can explicitly choose whether the player sends DSD or converts to PCM, so that shouldn't be a concern. Using HDMI restricts your DAC choices a bit, but there are still options. I have the last generation Oppo 205 deck and it's working fine, so I wouldn't be too concerned about finding a good used model, but I would skip the i2 mod and just use HDMI. You will have the option of surround if you want.

 

[Roland68]

So, broader question - Isn't SACD pretty dead as a format for new releases? Do you have a SACD library, or is it your intention to track down individual past releases?

I have two players that are SACD-capable, and frankly, could never hear a whit of difference from CD Redbook or high-format streaming. Just seems like you may be very limited in what you can play via this source?

Media such as CDs, vinyl, and SACDs have been a growth market for the past six years, with new releases appearing regularly. This trend is likely to continue, as demand for compatible devices has also increased in recent years, which is unfortunately reflected in the used equipment market as well. Several new CD and SACD players have also been released.

Personally, I pay much more attention to which available medium features the best recording/mastering, as there can be significant differences.

 

[Descartes]

I2S is for delivery of DSD from a player to a Capable DAC. I am wondering how many unsuspecting souls who buy these Sony BluRay players who think they are actually playing back their SACDs are actually hearing PCM? It is sad that Sony can't support their own creation with a $1K SACD player.

The exited the market so quickly

 

[Descartes]

Sorry to add to the pile advising against this. I have two players - a Sony and Oppo Bluray/UHD - that can output DSD over HDMI to be converted at the receiver in my case. You can explicitly choose whether the player sends DSD or converts to PCM, so that shouldn't be a concern. Using HDMI restricts your DAC choices a bit, but there are still options. I have the last generation Oppo 205 deck and it's working fine, so I wouldn't be too concerned about finding a good used model, but I would skip the i2 mod and just use HDMI. You will have the option of surround if you want.

Yep this what I do, wishing I had bought a couple of these!

 

[Descartes]

Media such as CDs, vinyl, and SACDs have been a growth market for the past six years, with new releases appearing regularly. This trend is likely to continue, as demand for compatible devices has also increased in recent years, which is unfortunately reflected in the used equipment market as well. Several new CD and SACD players have also been released.

Personally, I pay much more attention to which available medium features the best recording/mastering, as there can be significant differences.

Yes a great site to look at is: https://magicvinyldigital.net/

Absolutely amazing site

 

[Joe Smith]

Media such as CDs, vinyl, and SACDs have been a growth market for the past six years, with new releases appearing regularly. This trend is likely to continue, as demand for compatible devices has also increased in recent years, which is unfortunately reflected in the used equipment market as well. Several new CD and SACD players have also been released.

Personally, I pay much more attention to which available medium features the best recording/mastering, as there can be significant differences.

Yeah, but…I still say SACD is a pretty dead format, unless someone already has a big library. I still use and occasionally buy vinyl and CDs…even a high end cassette now and then if I see something great…but I very rarely see SACDs in the wild, and the old titles for online purchase have prices jacked up pretty high.

 

[Descartes]

Yeah, but…I still say SACD is a pretty dead format, unless someone already has a big library. I still use and occasionally buy vinyl and CDs…even a high end cassette now and then if I see something great…but I very rarely see SACDs in the wild, and the old titles for online purchase have prices jacked up pretty high.

Have over 200 SACD mostly classical music and a few Rock albums! Definitely not dead

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