PCB vs Point to Point Wiring?

[watchnerd]

Other than serviceability, are these sound quality arguments valid?

Current density:

PSB Audio, Paul says PCBs good for manufacturing, but point to point sounds better for audio:

 

[SIY]

No.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I would go with PCB's, you can have ground planes for a start.

 

[restorer-john]

I would go with PCB's, you can have ground planes for a start.

Boeing would know all about that...ground planes...

Maybe they should have used point-to-point, like Airbus, and they'd still have air-planes...

 

[Jim777]

Boeing would know all about that...ground planes...

Maybe they should have used point-to-point, like Airbus, and they'd still have air-planes...

Airplanes make a lot of noise, so should I go with a pcb?

 

[Hypnotoad]

Maybe they should have used point-to-point, like Airbus, and they'd still have air-planes...

And don't forget some Russian mig's have vacuum tubes to nullify EMP attacks.

So many comedian's out of work and..............................

 

[watchnerd]

But but but....

What about what they said about impedance?

Surely a fatter wire is somehow better in terms of resistance....

Although I guess that's all relative to the power supply, and if you can crank enough juice, it's all relative?

Right?

Or no?

 

[valkeryie]

And don't forget some Russian mig's have vacuum tubes to nullify EMP attacks.

So many comedian's out of work and..............................

No on the Russian MIGs and the vacuum tube radars. The MIG-25 we "recovered" in Japan had a vacuum tube radar of enormous power - as I recall it was 600 kW. When we saw that we thought the Russians were preparing to fight a nuclear war as tubes are immune to EMP bursts. NOT SO. After the wall fell we discovered that the reason the radar used tubes was because the Russian semi-conductor industry did not have the technique necessary to build high power RF transistors. BTW: That plane - the MIG-25 and its radar - was built for only one reason - to knock B-70 Valkeryie bombers - that we NEVER built. Evidently the Russians had a hard time controlling their military-industrial bureaucracies.

 

[watchnerd]

No on the Russian MIGs and the vacuum tube radars. The MIG-25 we "recovered" in Japan had a vacuum tube radar of enormous power - as I recall it was 600 kW. When we saw that we thought the Russians were preparing to fight a nuclear war as tubes are immune to EMP bursts. NOT SO. After the wall fell we discovered that the reason the radar used tubes was because the Russian semi-conductor industry did not have the technique necessary to build high power RF transistors. BTW: That plane - the MIG-25 and its radar - was built for only one reason - to knock B-70 Valkeryie bombers - that we NEVER built. Evidently the Russians had a hard time controlling their military-industrial bureaucracies.

The B-70 reminds me of the airplane from "Johnny Quest"

vs

 

[solderdude]

You can do point to point on a PCB as well.
The (reference)ground should be really well constructed.

I'd like to see small SMD chips wired point to point.

 

[Frank Dernie]

But but but....

What about what they said about impedance?

Surely a fatter wire is somehow better in terms of resistance....

Although I guess that's all relative to the power supply, and if you can crank enough juice, it's all relative?

Right?

Or no?

I would imagine no electronics designer would be daft enough to design a circuit with inadequate pcb traces, but perhaps.
On most amps the high current bits, output stage to speaker sockets and power supply to power stage, are wire anyway.

 

[watchnerd]

I would imagine no electronics designer would be daft enough to design a circuit with inadequate pcb traces, but perhaps.
On most amps the high current bits, output stage to speaker sockets and power supply to power stage, are wire anyway.

Paul seems to say:

"If you're doing DIY, go with point to point"

Okay, but how many guys making SETs would make a PCB, anyway?

They're all one-offs (no need to mass produce) and pretty simple circuits.

Wouldn't pragmatic reasons alone lead DIY tube guys to use point to point almost no matter what?

 

[gene_stl]

Point to point wiring is more susceptible to wiring errors and mechanical failures. And lack of ground planes. And ,and.....
In the seventies I set about to build myself a three way electronic crossover and etched a circuit board for it so I wouldn't have to do point to point wiring on multiple op amps.

 

[Bamboszek]

I'd like to see small SMD chips wired point to point.

Haven't you ever seen dead bug style prototype?

Answering first post - @tomchr provided very interesting measurments at another forum LM3886 PCB vs Point-to-Point (with data)

 

[Frank Dernie]

Paul seems to say:

"If you're doing DIY, go with point to point"

Okay, but how many guys making SETs would make a PCB, anyway?

They're all one-offs (no need to mass produce) and pretty simple circuits.

Wouldn't pragmatic reasons alone lead DIY tube guys to use point to point almost no matter what?

Certainly makes sense for DIY

 

[SIY]

Wouldn't pragmatic reasons alone lead DIY tube guys to use point to point almost no matter what?

I use both depending on the circuit. Sometimes a mix. The main issue for tubes and PCBs is thermal management.

 

[solderdude]

Haven't you ever seen dead bug style prototype?

Answering first post - @tomchr provided very interesting measurments at another forum LM3886 PCB vs Point-to-Point (with data)

SO-8 and 0805 is quite doable with small circuits.
Besides, the handywork above is not point really to point wiring with a star ground, this is closer to a glassfiber-free PCB.
As I am not a member at DIY audio I cannot see any pictures there. (I know I could register, its free)

I was referring to TQFP/LQFP components and 0402 parts but I guess using adapters makes this possible as well.

Come to think of it I did repair a PCB once where a TQFP that was (not so skillfully) removed by me and tore of some traces.
I repaired it by scratching off the soldermask and soldering single strands of thin standard supple montage wires.
Topped off with plastic spray.

And when someone can do this (see below) chances are someone can build a mobile phone using point to point wiring as well.

 

[tomchr]

PS Audio, Paul says PCBs good for manufacturing, but point to point sounds better for audio:

I suggest approaching the PS Audio videos with more than one grain of salt. Just saying.

Tom

 

[Hypnotoad]

Besides PCB's are much neater.

 

[tomchr]

Indeed.