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PC/Nuc version recommendations?

Neddy

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Hi,
I'm looking at buying a new PC for music server duties, and am considering either a used NUC or a 'recycled' rack mount machine, running W10 and JRiver most likely.
Not interested in any streaming, but might consider Roon at some point.

Music data will reside either on a NAS or a share drive - about 1.5TB so far.
I may also run some EQ/Tuning on this machine, but my main speaker & sub - room EQ/crossovers is done downstream, so this new machine would most likely only do surround channel EQ, or perhaps time (FIR) adjustments to the mains.

So - I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions/info - esp. on the plethora of used Intel NUCs out there (or comments about 1U rack mount ex-server machines - I have one spare "U" in my audio rack).

I'd like to keep the purchase around $200 if I can, but could go as high as $400 if necessary.

My main question is - how much difference do the different NUC generations really make? Should I steer away from Gen5 machines?

I'm assuming an I7 of any (recent) generation would make sense, but do the I5s in newer generations offer any significant advantages?

Really looking for the best bang for the buck here.

Comments or suggestions welcome & Thanks!!!

PS. I already have a spare Atom based W7 machine - about 5 yrs old! - I could use, but assume it would just be a waste of effort.
 

q3cpma

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Windows is simply insuitable as a server OS, using GNU/Linux or *BSD would indeed be much better. As for distros, it depends on how much you want to learn or how much experience you have. I'd suggest Alpine if you want something simple that will teach you a bit without being Gentoo on the number-of-knobs level.
 

momo7G

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For jriver, if you are not using it to play HD video, your old atom system is more than enough. As EQing is not really demanding work for system. Think RME ADI2 DAC, it can do EQ within the hardware with heaps less computing power than a CPU. Of course it feels good to have new hardware within sight, but personally I may use the money for a nice meal.
 

BillG

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Best bang for the buck would an ex-lease machine - any generation i7 would be just fine for your needs. I'm sure there are many certified refurbishers in you locale from which to purchase one.

Linux vs Windows for a server?

Either is fine really, but I'm sure that you'll find Windows to be more user-friendly and plug-and-play - I've used Windows 10 Professional for a couple of years now as a server, running Emby, with no problems. I found Linux to be too damned annoying to use the last time I tried (I'm a software engineer and data scientist) - this was over 20 years ago, though. In terms of software, I'm sure that Windows will be much more compatible with the various bits of commercial software one would use for audio as well.

Happy serving, streaming, and whatever else you might do with the machine... :cool:
 
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Neddy

Neddy

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Thanks - good stuff!
BillG - 'ex-leash'? Lease, you meant?
There are several refurbishers nearby, but I was looking primarily at ebay refurbed/used.
Even 1U servers have nearly no value today...

I should have mentioned that I have 20yrs of IT life in my rear-view mirror...dwindling fast.

Did a fair amount of enterprise desktop level WinOS (NT to W10) stuff, built many of my own PCs, but also worked closely with quite a few UNIX Monsters (IBM mainframe).... but my closest relation to it other than fun chats would be fortran, and that wayback mirror is so tiny/distant as to not want to go there....as much as I respect the OS and it's mavins.
So, for now, W10 is my preference.
I do think I'll try the Atom machine first - as mentioned, cheap and In Stock - nothing to lose but a bit of time.
Still, I'd like something a bit more current (W10 compatible, anyway)...so keep the ideas & suggestions coming!

Oh, and FWIW, this is for a 7.1 Mch system driven by a USB DAC.

Thanks again!!!!
 

Kal Rubinson

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amirm

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BillG

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this is for a 7.1 Mch system driven by a USB DAC.

Yeah, that does change things a bit, as others have just pointed out.

If you're not doing format conversion from/to DSD, I'd still think any i7 should handle minor DSP, like an EQ for example, for 7.1 with relative ease - this is based on my older i7 doing DSP (upsampling, EQ, Room simulation, and Tube amp modeling) on a stereo stream while taking ~1% on a single core to do so. But, anything more exotic than that, it might struggle... :cool:
 
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Kal Rubinson

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Great article Kal. My windows i5 Roon server runs with no load until I enable DSD to PCM conversion. Then, it struggles to play reliably.
Yes, some of the weight comes from Roon as all the operations were more easily handled by the same hardware system but running JRiver/Win. I imagine that there are other player/OS combinations that will get even more out of the "typical" i5/i7.
 

Old Listener

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Windows is simply insuitable as a server OS, using GNU/Linux or *BSD would indeed be much better. As for distros, it depends on how much you want to learn or how much experience you have. I'd suggest Alpine if you want something simple that will teach you a bit without being Gentoo on the number-of-knobs level.

I've used Win 7 and now Win 8.1 very successfully for music playback for 13 years Those systems were run in a headless configuration and ran very reliably.

If the OP doesn't have experience with Linux, he would be taking on an extra burden to move to that OS.

The OP should try out the Win 7 atom based NUC first and then consider buying a newer, more powerful NUC.

A 5th gen. atom based NUC with only 2 GM or Ram and a 128 GB SSD was sufficient for use as a dedicated music PC. I now use a 6th Gen. i5 NUC with 8 GB Ram and a 256 GB SSD.

I want my music PC to be an appliance: it should run the same way every day with no unwanted updates and no unwanted anti-virus activity. I can't turn off updates or A/V in Windows 10.
 

Totoro

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Windows is simply insuitable as a server OS, using GNU/Linux or *BSD would indeed be much better. As for distros, it depends on how much you want to learn or how much experience you have. I'd suggest Alpine if you want something simple that will teach you a bit without being Gentoo on the number-of-knobs level.
I’m sorry but that’s a bit overstated. If someone wants to run a personal server for their music on windows, it’s not like the thing is going to just not work. I’m as much of a Linux proponent as anyone, but we shouldn’t be spreading FUD.
 
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Neddy

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Kal: Absolutely - your article was what got me thinking that i5/i7 power might be a wise investment!
And, thank you for persisting in your Mch evaluations - you've provided a lot of very helpful guidance, and ASR/Amir (and many others) has similarly helped me with the value/$ part of the challenge.

It would appear that a 'good measuring' Mch system is now more or less within my reach cost wise, and I'm hoping to make a 'final' round of significant quality upgrades.

Admittedly, the Oppo205 would probably have met my needs almost as well (I'm using a 103 currently), but I missed the boat on that, and prices now are just nuts, for what will soon be an obsolete product.

I totally understand the 'better fit' that Unix brings to the task, but I'm much more in 'need of an appliance' (as mentioned above) camp, but also some degree of customization...which JRiver and/or Roon would appear to provide.
Running Dirac might also be a future consideration...but probably not necessary.

And, yes, I really just want to make some 'final' major updates so I can focus more on finding and enjoying the wonderful music selection I have already, so learning a new OS is just not in the cards (at my age, tho that's really just an excuse, it's more a matter of priorities).

W10 forced updates and changes - yes, that could be an issue, but with W7 being de-supported soon, W10 is probably a better choice for me now.

I appreciate the i5/i7 6th generation comment - those would appear to be right on the edge of affordability for me!
I've been using MusicBee quite happily, but don't think that will provide the 'access the library from a tablet or smartphone' notion that I have as a goal...so JR is my next step.

Dedicated LAN->USB devices like the Micro-Rendu also got me interested, but don't appear to offer the customization-ability that Win+JR do (for less money), so I've pretty much dropped those from my investigations.

However if someone made a cost competitive LAN or HDMI-> AES multichannel solution (minidsp where are you?) I'd sure be interested!!

No one using a rack mount ex-server or PC ? Those seem to be REALLY cheap as refurbs, and I have to admit to having spent enough time in various data centers to 'like' that idea (but no room for the slide out keyboard and monitor).
But there are so many different models available I wouldn't even know where to start.
o_O

I think I'll continue monitoring/learning the market for used NUCs/PCs while I try to get the old Atom machine up and running again....will give me something to work on while I wait to hear about DAC delivery schedules, too.

Many thanks for all the good ideas!!
 
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Neddy

Neddy

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Good point - hard to hear myself think in the data center!
I've had good luck so far with replacing noisy fans with Noctua's but their tiniest one (1U sized) is audible within a few feet.
It will be in a 19" rack (one way or another)...but one that looks like a nice stereo cabinet (speaker, actually)....and will have a door and foam grill to hide blinkin' leds and other uglinesses when I want. Pic to follow on that later...
IIRC, too, many rack mount PCs are probably deeper than my rack (14-15"), too.
Now, a 1U fanless NUC in a 19" case might be pretty slick....:facepalm:
 

Kal Rubinson

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A lot of these have noisy fans. And at any rate, are ugly in a stereo cabinet. :)
They do not have to be in the listening room.
 

amirm

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They do not have to be in the listening room.
I wouldn't want them in any room in the house. :) I worked hard to get my network equipment rack fan-free. This included the UPS, the 32-port gigabit switch, etc. Fans go bad in these, use power and howl away so bad that can be a nuisance.
 

BillG

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I've been using MusicBee quite happily, but don't think that will provide the 'access the library from a tablet or smartphone' notion that I have as a goal...so JR is my next step.

It can and does via its remote control plug in and Android app - I use it also, by the way.

Here's a screenshot of it doing so:

Screenshot_MusicBee_Remote_20190910-153959.png

However, it's in need of an update as it's not particularly elegant. By the way, there's a DLNA plug in for MusicBee which allows it to act as a server thus utilizing its DSP engine if one so desires. One's library can then be accessed via BubbleUPnP, or another DLNA client app, running on a mobile device or even Net enabled equipment such as a receiver or television running a compatible client.

I do have another, more attractive and user-friendly, way to access my server's music library via the following, though:

Screenshot_Emby_20190910-154259.png

That's via Emby (server) Windows, and Emby Android on my smartphone/tablet. I don't know if you plan to stream your library, but that's what I use to stream mine either to a Chromecast Audio or my mobile Androids - I've not found Roon to be cost effective for my needs when it cost $500 USD vs $119 USD for a lifetime subscription. Emby doesn't perform any DSP, by the way, it's just a straight client-server package.

JRiver I found to be designed "by engineers for engineers" in terms of its configuration and usability - just because I'm one that doesn't mean it's suitable for others who aren't. So, it gets a thumbs-down from me in terms of UI/UX for general users... :cool:
 
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Krunok

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Great article Kal. My windows i5 Roon server runs with no load until I enable DSD to PCM conversion. Then, it struggles to play reliably.

It chokes with stereo or with multichannel DSD to PCM conversion?
 
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