PC/MAC for Dirac Processor

[PaulF2020]

Hi Folks,

I currently have wiim=USB>minidsp(with Dirac live)=COAX>KEF LS50w2=>2x KEF T2 subs

I like the setup but would like to do DLBC and potentially add more subs. I was looking at different options and there are not many which will combine following:
1. 2 or more subwoofers outputs
2. DLBC
3. Tosling or coax output for mains
4. Ideally include a streamer with at least room ready and airplay

So I was thinking what if I just buy DLBC from Dirac and use MAC/PC as a streamer. The only thing I need is a toslink/coax output and at least few inputs for CD player. Can anyone suggest some sort of solution. What comes to my mind is something like Mac mini + some sort of digital/ADC interface for I/O.

PS. DLBC is like 900$ + I need Mac mini and some sort of interface. There is potentially a substitute device which seems like might work - Onkyo P 80, but I can't find any reviews on how DLBC works on it etc

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi Folks,

I currently have wiim=USB>minidsp(with Dirac live)=COAX>KEF LS50w2=>2x KEF T2 subs

I like the setup but would like to do DLBC and potentially add more subs. I was looking at different options and there are not many which will combine following:
1. 2 or more subwoofers outputs
2. DLBC
3. Tosling or coax output for mains
4. Ideally include a streamer with at least room ready and airplay

So I was thinking what if I just buy DLBC from Dirac and use MAC/PC as a streamer. The only thing I need is a toslink/coax output and at least few inputs for CD player. Can anyone suggest some sort of solution. What comes to my mind is something like Mac mini + some sort of digital/ADC interface for I/O.

PS. DLBC is like 900$ + I need Mac mini and some sort of interface. There is potentially a substitute device which seems like might work - Onkyo P 80, but I can't find any reviews on how DLBC works on it etc

I ran into this for my PC setup recently and ended up with MOTU M4 but I don't need any digital outputs for it. The MOTU Ultralite MK5 does have them, though. There aren't TOO many interfaces with more than 2 analog outs and also reasonably priced. The M4 is about as cheap as you can go and I got it $200 used.

 

[DWPress]

The cheapest decent multichannel interface I could find with digital output is a Scarlett 6i6 but you'd get a couple extra channels out of it.

 

[PaulF2020]

The cheapest decent multichannel interface I could find with digital output is a Scarlett 6i6 but you'd get a couple extra channels out of it.

Thanks, I was just thinking, I have 2 channel USB DACs which I can use for the 2 subs and I have SMSL usb to spdif converter, I wonder if it will work for me as a test. I have old macbook and I am thinking about getting a trial and test it.

Do you think it will work? Also I can't see any HW requirements for DLBC, only for ART.

If it works i will probably get mac mini instead, but the question for me is how do I route and switch analogue sources and CD player. I really don't want to login to that mini to switch sources every time.

 

[DWPress]

You can create an aggregate device in Audio Midi Setup but there will be clock drift over time - good enough to experiment with the old laptop though.

I'm running 8 channels for XO and room correction and using a Mac mini as desktop main computer. I found that the M1 with 8GB RAM was not enough to manage all my audio/video needs and still use it as a browser (with too many tabs open), light desktop publishing and email machine so upgraded to a M2 with 24GB RAM when they came out and haven't had any issues since. If you're not using the machine for anything else but audio then the M1 series should work fine but I'd still look for a used machine with 16GB RAM.

Simplest solution for digital input would probably be to just add a switch, some come with remotes if that's important but you got to get up to put in the CD anyway....

I have the Dirac suite on my Mac, DLBC was not a huge leap from regular DL but ART, even for my 2.2 system is pretty amazing if you spend the extra $$$. I had been creating my own filters for years, thought I was pretty good at it, but after ART I haven't pulled out the mic again since. It's worth playing with the trial and see what it can do for your listening space.

 

[PaulF2020]

You can create an aggregate device in Audio Midi Setup but there will be clock drift over time - good enough to experiment with the old laptop though.

I'm running 8 channels for XO and room correction and using a Mac mini as desktop main computer. I found that the M1 with 8GB RAM was not enough to manage all my audio/video needs and still use it as a browser (with too many tabs open), light desktop publishing and email machine so upgraded to a M2 with 24GB RAM when they came out and haven't had any issues since. If you're not using the machine for anything else but audio then the M1 series should work fine but I'd still look for a used machine with 16GB RAM.

Simplest solution for digital input would probably be to just add a switch, some come with remotes if that's important but you got to get up to put in the CD anyway....

I have the Dirac suite on my Mac, DLBC was not a huge leap from regular DL but ART, even for my 2.2 system is pretty amazing if you spend the extra $$$. I had been creating my own filters for years, thought I was pretty good at it, but after ART I haven't pulled out the mic again since. It's worth playing with the trial and see what it can do for your listening space.

Thanks, I just tried and indeed by default it will only allows me to choose either one or another device:

I'll see how to aggregate it, never done it before. This mac will be only running music streaming like roon endpoint, maybe caldera for plexamp etc.
How did you setup processor for 2.2 could you send a screenshot from channel config page?

 

[Martini]

One issue I've had with Dirac is it won't play audio from YouTube videos, at least not when used as whole system correction from my MacBook Pro (M2-max). Genelec GLM does not have this issue.

 

[PaulF2020]

One issue I've had with Dirac is it won't play audio from YouTube videos, at least not when used as whole system correction from my MacBook Pro (M2-max). Genelec GLM does not have this issue.

shouldn’t be a problem for me. I even thinking to keep whim ultra just for streaming and volume control and switching and use Mac with Dirac just as a digital processor. Not sure if it is a good idea to use it or not, but sounds like it should be ok.

 

[DWPress]

I'll see how to aggregate it, never done it before.

You create aggregate device in Audio Midi Setup app, it will then be available as a multi ch device to select within Dirac.

One issue I've had with Dirac is it won't play audio from YouTube videos, at least not when used as whole system correction from my MacBook Pro (M2-max).

I use a virtual cable (Blackhole, SoundSource, etc) to direct my 2ch system output to Hang Loose Convolver which hosts my 8ch active XO and use Dirac as a plugin in HLC. This allows any source to be processed and corrected before output. See if there's a way you can use a virtual cable in your routing and the plugin version and you should be all set.

 

[DWPress]

shouldn’t be a problem for me. I even thinking to keep whim ultra just for streaming and volume control and switching and use Mac with Dirac just as a digital processor. Not sure if it is a good idea to use it or not, but sounds like it should be ok.

With digital inputs and outputs on the DAC you can correct all digital/analog sources in real time. With my Okto DAC 8pro I can even listen to my turntable with full room correction as well. Here's a graph of my system routing from a different thread here on ASR, what's missing is the Scarlett 6i6 which connects to another AES input on my Okto but I only use the 6i6 for room measurements and home studio recording on occasion. I could use the 6i6 instead of the MSB PAD-1 for analog inputs:

 

[PaulF2020]

With digital inputs and outputs on the DAC you can correct all digital/analog sources in real time. With my Okto DAC 8pro I can even listen to my turntable with full room correction as well. Here's a graph of my system routing from a different thread here on ASR, what's missing is the Scarlett 6i6 which connects to another AES input on my Okto but I only use the 6i6 for room measurements and home studio recording on occasion. I could use the 6i6 instead of the MSB PAD-1 for analog inputs:

View attachment 557389

Thanks. I guess your volume control is on DAC?

I was thinking this:
1. All analogue and digital sources connected to win ultra
2. Ultra does switching and volume control connected to Mac mini over coax/toslink (not yet sure what I would use for this input)
3. Mac mini connected to scarlet over usb
4. Scarlet coax output goes to mains
5. Scarlet analog outputs go to subs

 

[DWPress]

Thanks. I guess your volume control is on DAC?

I was thinking this:
1. All analogue and digital sources connected to win ultra
2. Ultra does switching and volume control connected to Mac mini over coax/toslink (not yet sure what I would use for this input)
3. Mac mini connected to scarlet over usb

Yes, volume control on my Okto which also has a remote.

Analog/digital inputs can be done with the Scarlett - with the bi-directional USB connection thus giving you the benefits of system wide EQ. You technically wouldn't need the WiiM anymore and just use desktop apps on the mini controlled by the companion phone apps or just Airplay to the mini.

The Scarlett does have volume control but no remote. Focusrite also has a phone/tablet app that could be used for switching sources and outputs but it's not as eloquent as the WiiM app as it's meant for pro audio.

 

[cobby]

Might be worth checking out FXRoute. It’s pretty much built for this kind of setup: headless DSP, web UI, streaming, room correction and automatic sub alignment.

2.2 is supported already and it works with regular multichannel USB interfaces, so you’re not tied to specific hardware. I’m currently testing with a cheap Behringer UMC204HD and will probably get a MOTU M4 soon.

I’d also like to add 2.4. I don’t have four subs to properly test it right now, but if you’re interested in testing, I could probably add support for it.

GitHub: https://github.com/CobbyCode/fxroute
Web demo: https://cobbycode.github.io/fxroute/

 

[Martini]

You create aggregate device in Audio Midi Setup app, it will then be available as a multi ch device to select within Dirac.



I use a virtual cable (Blackhole, SoundSource, etc) to direct my 2ch system output to Hang Loose Convolver which hosts my 8ch active XO and use Dirac as a plugin in HLC. This allows any source to be processed and corrected before output. See if there's a way you can use a virtual cable in your routing and the plugin version and you should be all set.

More likely, I will replace the speakers that I was using Dirac for and replace them with some more Genelec SAM monitors and just use GLM.

 

[DWPress]

I like the looks of the app @cobby and it looks like it would do everything the OP is looking for except Dirac maybe. Is there a way the app could host plugins?

I'll look into it further next time my Roon subscription looms near. Still have bias against web apps vs stand alone but understand it is the wave of the future.

 

[cobby]

I like the looks of the app @cobby and it looks like it would do everything the OP is looking for except Dirac maybe. Is there a way the app could host plugins?

I'll look into it further next time my Roon subscription looms near. Still have bias against web apps vs stand alone but understand it is the wave of the future.

Thanks. FXRoute actually already hosts plugins internally as part of the DSP engine, mainly LV2 on Linux.

A general user-loadable plugin host isn’t exposed yet, but technically it could be added. Dirac itself is the tricky part since their desktop plugins are aimed at Mac/Windows rather than Linux.

That said, FXRoute already covers a lot of the underlying room-correction work itself: measurement-based correction, target curves, FIR/PEQ generation, convolution, time alignment, crossover/bass management and automatic sub alignment including gain, delay and polarity. You can also import REW filters or external convolver filters, so it’s deliberately quite open.

Dirac obviously has its own proprietary processing and a lot of refinement behind it, especially with DLBC and ART. But the basic DSP and math in this area is well understood, and FXRoute already covers a fairly large part of the same practical problem space.

And despite the web UI, FXRoute is still a local standalone appliance. The browser is basically just the remote control for the DSP running on the box.

 

[PaulF2020]

Yes, volume control on my Okto which also has a remote.

Analog/digital inputs can be done with the Scarlett - with the bi-directional USB connection thus giving you the benefits of system wide EQ. You technically wouldn't need the WiiM anymore and just use desktop apps on the mini controlled by the companion phone apps or just Airplay to the mini.

The Scarlett does have volume control but no remote. Focusrite also has a phone/tablet app that could be used for switching sources and outputs but it's not as eloquent as the WiiM app as it's meant for pro audio.

Thanks I looked into, so I can utilise Scarlett for in and out, which is cool and saves me some space. I got 6i6 gen2, will see how it works. Do you know if there any issues with controlling volume on Wiim instead of down the line? Wiim is 24bit DSP, so it should affect quality of I do it this way or I'm missing something?

 

[DWPress]

That said, FXRoute already covers a lot of the underlying room-correction work itself: measurement-based correction, target curves, FIR/PEQ generation, convolution, time alignment, crossover/bass management and automatic sub alignment including gain, delay and polarity. You can also import REW filters or external convolver filters, so it’s deliberately quite open.

Yes, I appreciate it's ability to do all of these things and allow for external EQ solutions in FIR and IIR but not sure how it would work in my situation where I am hosting 8 convolution filters, 1 per channel, for an active 8 way crossover. Haven't looked deeply enough or familiar enough with recent Linux distros to know how to make it work.

Do you know if there any issues with controlling volume on Wiim instead of down the line? Wiim is 24bit DSP, so it should affect quality of I do it this way or I'm missing something?

I have the same 6i6 2nd gen, it will also be useful for taking measurements - for signal measuring a lot of audio apps prefer you using the same device for input and output to keep timing references accurate. I'm not sure how the WiiM would affect the signal chain. Digital volume control is essentially a solved problem, there will be no signal loss using it on the WiiM or in software.

 

[PaulF2020]

I have the same 6i6 2nd gen, it will also be useful for taking measurements - for signal measuring a lot of audio apps prefer you using the same device for input and output to keep timing references accurate. I'm not sure how the WiiM would affect the signal chain. Digital volume control is essentially a solved problem, there will be no signal loss using it on the WiiM or in software.

I'm waiting for my Scarlett to arrive. I'm still a bit struggling to understand how to present channels to Dirac processor, but my idea is connect it this way so far:
Wiim ultra =coax=>Scarlett spDIF IN as a source for Dirac processor on Mac mini
and output as I have outlined previously - Scarlett spDIF OUT to mains and 2xTRS to subs

Once it arrives I'll post here how it goes.

 

[cobby]

Yes, I appreciate it's ability to do all of these things and allow for external EQ solutions in FIR and IIR but not sure how it would work in my situation where I am hosting 8 convolution filters, 1 per channel, for an active 8 way crossover. Haven't looked deeply enough or familiar enough with recent Linux distros to know how to make it work.

Yes, 8 channels is a bit beyond where FXRoute is right now. At the moment I’m really concentrating on stereo / 2.1 / 2.2 and getting that side properly finished.

I do want to look at multichannel later though. I actually just bought a Scarlett 16i16 partly with that in mind (decided already before for a Motu M4), so it’s definitely on my radar. Just not something I want to promise yet.

And I really wouldn’t worry too much about the Linux part. There’s an even an x86 ISO, so it’s basically: boot from the USB stick, give it a username and password, and your Wi-Fi credentials if you want to use Wi-Fi, install and done.
You really don’t need to know much about Linux for that.

In your case the 8-channel setup is much more of a limitation right now than the OS.