PC (GPU or CPU) interference on audio interface

[Kusagane]

Hi all,

first of all sorry for my english, maybe is not that good.

I had a laptop for ages and no problem at all. Months ago I bought a desktop PC with gaming features.
So I connected my gears on my pc in particular:
audio interface (a M-AUDIO M-TRACK 2x2 via usb 2.0 on the rear of the pc)

connected to this AI, for the output: there are 2 yamaha h5 monitors via balanced cable and headphones Beyerdynamics dt-770 Pro 80 ohm
for the inputs i actually have only a classic shure sm58 via xlr balanced

THE PROBLEM is... when I start playing a videogames and cpu start working more, I hear a noise like a bzzzz even with all volumes down comin from monitors and headphones.

But hey, ok, there might be a ground loop like a looked on the net. So I bought a USB isolator with external psu (ifi iDefender+).

Yay, solved that! It's working...

BUT!! I only solved the noise comin from the pc introducing in the interface and goin throught speakers and headphones. yeah... when the DIRECT MONITOR level of my interface is to zero.

The problem is is still here if I put turn the level of direct monitoring of my interface. (Hope you know some interfaces has a knob that manages the balance between sounds from inputs and sounds from the pc, mixing them and sending them to outputs.

Sometimes i need to hear my voice cheating with friends on discord while playing videogames, don't aks me why, but I need. But first of all I need it to record as a musician.

So the iDefender solved my problem, bu not totally.

Another big question I have is: i read some solutions like disconnecting the pin 1 on the xlr cable to interrupt again the ground on mic, or just buying something with GND lift and ok.. but the problem will stay here in any case for all the gears i think to connect, like my guitars or something else.

I can continue to buy devices to isolate everyone of my gears connecting to the interface or I can investigate more on the origin of the problem. But I didn't build the PC, but I'm not able to.

That said, can you help me solving the problem with this noise and direct monitoring? And if possible but not that urgent, can you help me identify the problem, solving it at the origin?

Thank you all

----------

last tries I remember:
disconnect all leaving only PC, AI, HEADPHONES, MIC. direct input half. noise here
turn down leds on the pc cooling system. noise here

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Kusagane! Welcome to ASR.

So I bought a USB isolator with external psu (ifi iDefender+).

The iDefender is not a true USB isolator, but a glorified USB Y-cable.

Seriously, a slightly modified cable like the Delock 83176 achieves the same thing.

Instead, I would recommend you try a true USB isolator, e.g:

Topping HS01
Topping HS02
Hifime High-Speed USB Isolator v2
JDS Synapse
Neutron HiFi Isolator V1
DSD TECH SH-G01L
Olimex USB-ISO-HS

Note that some of these don't play nicely with bidirectional data transfer required for audio interfaces.

The DSD Tech is a safe bet and has been recommended by RME for their ADI-2 interfaces, the rest you'd have to research yourself.

 

[Kusagane]

Ok, I heard about the ADUM3165 chip, that was my second choice just for the price. ahah!
I've seen more youtube videos of iDefender and it costs like the double so i was thinkin it could be better, even for the external PSU the Adum desn't have.

Btw, let's try. I will order it this evening with no problems. let's try it and let's see.

In any case, by you experience, do you think there is a way to solve the problem at the source in the PC? Am I right thinkin in this direction or is it better for me to fly down and settle down with these isolators?

Thank you for your answer btw, we'll talk soon.

 

[staticV3]

In any case, by you experience, do you think there is a way to solve the problem at the source in the PC?

Not without buying (or building) a new PC, and even then it would be tricky.

A USB isolator is your best bet.

 

[Kusagane]

Ok ok, let's go for the DSD TECH SH-G01L you mentioned.

Meanwhile I have another question, why do you think the iDefender doesn't work for the inputs? It solved perfectly the problem I had, but the noise's still here just in the direct monitoring, I was really surprised about that and even if is like a Y cable I don't understand why is not doin good even in this case. I mean, it isn't a true isolator but it solved the problem except for direct monitoring, where is the noise passing through? It would be curious for me and maybe for other people to know, if you know.

 

[staticV3]

Ok ok, let's go for the DSD TECH SH-G01L you mentioned.

Meanwhile I have another question, why do you think the iDefender doesn't work for the inputs? It solved perfectly the problem I had, but the noise's still here just in the direct monitoring, I was really surprised about that and even if is like a Y cable I don't understand why is not doin good even in this case. I mean, it isn't a true isolator but it solved the problem except for direct monitoring, where is the noise passing through? It would be curious for me and maybe for other people to know, if you know.

The iDefender likely cut the VBUS connection to your PC so that no current could come from it, however, GND, D+, and D- are still directly connected and can transmit USB interference noise, even through the iDefender.

That's where true isolators differ as they provide galvanic isolation for all USB pins.

 

[Kusagane]

I understand what you talk about right now, thank you for your explanation. Btw, the iDefender is doing its job, while I keep the direct input down low. This means (for me) that the GND loop would be solved. I really can't understand the link between my input (mic) in direct input still causing noise.

I just have the idea, as you mentioned before for other devices, that the iDefender isn't not working in both direction but just in the direction PC -> AI -> outputs, and not in the MIC -> AI -> PC direction. Am I right? I guess that if I GND lift the mic it would work, isn't it?

But even in this case, where is the input (mic) bringin the noise if it isn't comin from the pc now?

Thank you for your patience, I'm just a curious person who likes to understand how things works.

PS: Btw I was thinkin about that, the iDefender is a classic GND lifter, am I right? In the usb as you said we have GND, D+, D- and +5v. Well you say iDefender is just cutting the 5v from the pc getting it from the outlet? Why not the GND? People on the net defined it like a GND lifter. GND lifter usually cut the ground I guess. I can't find the project or the electrical scheme of the iDefender on the net unluckily.
I can even do the opposite question: why the iDefender is working (while the direct input is down) and i hear no noise, if GND, d+ and d- are still here?

PPS: DSD TECH SH-G01L arriving this evening i guess.

 

[Kusagane]

Hi @Kusagane! Welcome to ASR.


The iDefender is not a true USB isolator, but a glorified USB Y-cable.

Seriously, a slightly modified cable like the Delock 83176 achieves the same thing.

Instead, I would recommend you try a true USB isolator, e.g:

Topping HS01
Topping HS02
Hifime High-Speed USB Isolator v2
JDS Synapse
Neutron HiFi Isolator V1
DSD TECH SH-G01L
Olimex USB-ISO-HS

Note that some of these don't play nicely with bidirectional data transfer required for audio interfaces.

The DSD Tech is a safe bet and has been recommended by RME for their ADI-2 interfaces, the rest you'd have to research yourself.

DSD TECH has done the same result of iDefender. Noise disappeared in general from headphones and monitors with the direct input knob all on USB. If I turn it right towards "Direct" I begin to hear the bzzz.

I need to understand why this is happening I think, but I need your help for this, please.

A curious thing that can help is that: while a was testing today, I disconnected the iDefender from the pc and the noise was still goin even if there was no audio (obv) from the pc. The iDefender is powered by a classic smartphone psu putted in the outlet. This made me think that the iDefender solved the noise comin from the pc, but there is a noise comin from the outlet?

Attention: I have 2 weeks to refund the DSD TECH, I'll wait a little bit to see if we can resolve that and I hope so.

 

[Sokel]

DSD TECH has done the same result of iDefender. Noise disappeared in general from headphones and monitors with the direct input knob all on USB. If I turn it right towards "Direct" I begin to hear the bzzz.

I need to understand why this is happening I think, but I need your help for this, please.

A curious thing that can help is that: while a was testing today, I disconnected the iDefender from the pc and the noise was still goin even if there was no audio (obv) from the pc. The iDefender is powered by a classic smartphone psu putted in the outlet. This made me think that the iDefender solved the noise comin from the pc, but there is a noise comin from the outlet?

Is there a chance you're running Direct and software monitoring simultaneously by accident? They cannot run together.
Direct monitoring is not supposed to round trip through the PC as its whole purpose is low latency, so it's odd to pick up interference.

Far-fetched hypothesis could be proximity, cables, etc.
Di you try to rearrange them somehow?

 

[Bamboszek]

What is your exact spec? CPU, motherboard, GPU and PSU specifically.

Are you using proper audio, USB and HDMI cables with certificates and shielding?
Sometimes cheap HDMI cable can mess RFI severely.

Is your wall socket equipped with safety ground?

Do you tried to connect you interface to different USB port? Especially try with dedicated USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.x.

It might be possible that changing some of UEFI settings would help.
Keywords which might interest you: coil whine, spread spectrum, VRM Acoustic Noise Mitigation, C-states.

 

[Kusagane]

Is there a chance you're running Direct and software monitoring simultaneously by accident? They cannot run together.
Direct monitoring is not supposed to round trip through the PC as its whole purpose is low latency, so it's odd to pick up interference.

Far-fetched hypothesis could be proximity, cables, etc.
Di you try to rearrange them somehow?

I'm not using any software monitoring, I just run a videogame and the noise come out.

The issue started when I bought my new desktop pc, when I was using laptop I never has this noise. Maybe sometimes I heard a bzzz when I moved the cursor of the mouse. But nothing like now.

Cables? I tried a new usb cable for the AI, but nothing. I need to try a different cable for the mic, and maybe I can try to insert the guitar in the second input and see if somethingnlike that happens.

 

[Kusagane]

What is your exact spec? CPU, motherboard, GPU and PSU specifically.

Are you using proper audio, USB and HDMI cables with certificates and shielding?
Sometimes cheap HDMI cable can mess RFI severely.

Is your wall socket equipped with safety ground?

Do you tried to connect you interface to different USB port? Especially try with dedicated USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.x.

It might be possible that changing some of UEFI settings would help.
Keywords which might interest you: coil whine, spread spectrum, VRM Acoustic Noise Mitigation, C-states.

Well, gpu is rtx 4070 ti. Other components I need to research them. I'll check this evening.
I don't use hdmi, except for the screen but i tried to disconnect it too while listening the noise.. I use the usb stock of my AI, btw, and tried an alternative usb cable.

Socket equipped with safety ground, they are classic shuko sockets. I'm in the shuko through a power strip with shuko itself. i already tried to bypass the strip and go direct into the wall with the pc also changing socket with an extension.

I tried all my usb ports: 3.0 or 2.0

Dunno what is UEFI, need to research.

Thanks for this list of therms I would search something.

 

[Kusagane]

What is your exact spec? CPU, motherboard, GPU and PSU specifically.

Are you using proper audio, USB and HDMI cables with certificates and shielding?
Sometimes cheap HDMI cable can mess RFI severely.

Is your wall socket equipped with safety ground?

Do you tried to connect you interface to different USB port? Especially try with dedicated USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.x.

It might be possible that changing some of UEFI settings would help.
Keywords which might interest you: coil whine, spread spectrum, VRM Acoustic Noise Mitigation, C-states.

 

[Sokel]

I'm not using any software monitoring, I just run a videogame and the noise come out.

The issue started when I bought my new desktop pc, when I was using laptop I never has this noise. Maybe sometimes I heard a bzzz when I moved the cursor of the mouse. But nothing like now.

Cables? I tried a new usb cable for the AI, but nothing. I need to try a different cable for the mic, and maybe I can try to insert the guitar in the second input and see if somethingnlike that happens.

I would have a look at windows mixer and sound configuration if I was you.
There's a possibility that software monitoring is on by default et some apps of configurations.

It makes no sense to pick up noise internally when software monitoring is not in use, expert is something airborn, near the PC case.
Try playing with cables while you hear the noise, if its changing the cause could be proximity.

 

[Kusagane]

I would have a look at windows mixer and sound configuration if I was you.
There's a possibility that software monitoring is on by default et some apps of configurations.

It makes no sense to pick up noise internally when software monitoring is not in use, expert is something airborn, near the PC case.
Try playing with cables while you hear the noise, if its changing the cause could be proximity.

Ah well no, i shaked and moved the cables 1 by 1 weeks ago and the sound was the same. Today I moved the xlr too and i confirm what I said.

In windows mixer i checked something but I didn't find a voice called like this. I'm using windows 11 btw and i was used to windows 10, so I'm a bit lost right now. need to go deeper maybe.

 

[staticV3]

DSD TECH has done the same result of iDefender. Noise disappeared in general from headphones and monitors with the direct input knob all on USB. If I turn it right towards "Direct" I begin to hear the bzzz.

I need to understand why this is happening I think, but I need your help for this, please.

A curious thing that can help is that: while a was testing today, I disconnected the iDefender from the pc and the noise was still goin even if there was no audio (obv) from the pc. The iDefender is powered by a classic smartphone psu putted in the outlet. This made me think that the iDefender solved the noise comin from the pc, but there is a noise comin from the outlet?

Attention: I have 2 weeks to refund the DSD TECH, I'll wait a little bit to see if we can resolve that and I hope so.

Sounds like the noise comes from the phone charger, or from the microphone cable.

Can you run direct monitoring without a connection to the PC? (Plug the interface directly into the phone charger).

Also try powering the interface from a Powerbank, so there's no mains connection at all.

 

[Kusagane]

Sounds like the noise comes from the phone charger, or from the microphone cable.

Can you run direct monitoring without a connection to the PC? (Plug the interface directly into the phone charger).

Also try powering the interface from a Powerbank, so there's no mains connection at all.

Nice idea, this evening I will try a better phone charger, maybe i try connecting it to the main socket, not in the power strip.

Then, direct monitoring without a connection to the pc.. i think it is like i did before: AI -> usb cable -> iDefender -> usb c cable to usb a -> charger. (the idefender disconnected from the pc obv)
Maybe you mean i can skip the idefender step like this: AI -> usb c cable to usb a -> phone charger. (I'll try this evening)
And i'll try with my power bank too, good idea.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The Yamaha HS-x series of monitors is well known to suffer from the classic Pin 1 Problem that degrades effective CMRR on balanced connections in the face of ground loop currents. The same may also be true for the audio interface. Either way, the USB isolator should resolve this, as would a Behringer HD400 in the audio path. (I am obviously assuming that the cabling is not instrument cable but regular balanced patch cable. It has all been seen before.)

 

[phofman]

If using headphones and the adapter is powered from the USB port (via USB-C) - where is the ground loop? IMO it looks like the buzz comes from the power supply.

 

[Kusagane]

The Yamaha HS-x series of monitors is well known to suffer from the classic Pin 1 Problem that degrades effective CMRR on balanced connections in the face of ground loop currents. The same may also be true for the audio interface. Either way, the USB isolator should resolve this, as would a Behringer HD400 in the audio path. (I am obviously assuming that the cabling is not instrument cable but regular balanced patch cable. It has all been seen before.)

Monitor disconnected from the AI - noise in the headphones in any case. Not a HS problem.

The cable for the mic is a 1m xlr cable and I consider obvious that is balanced, maybe I'm wrong. This evening I'll try another cable, I try a cable that is a DIY 0.5 m balanced for sure and well done.