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PC far away from amp - Best cable for long runs?

conqueeftador

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I've put the PC fairly far away from the amplifiers. Not had much success running long RCAs and a 5m USB seems similar with bringing noise into the equation.

What's the best cable for a 15-20m run? I was thinking USB to optical or coax at the PC end and a long run in either of those might be the best bet? Using either another DAC or straight into the receiver.
 
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freemansteve

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That's a long cable run, and PCs do seem to be noisy.
How noisy is the system on a quick test with a 1m RCA or 1m USB cable? - I'm thinking if there is still noise, your problems may be a bit more fundamental.

If the 1m lengths prove to be quiet, then an optical or co-ax link seems a good idea, but it depends on what your PC and DAC (or Amp) can support - there are various permutations using a long optical or co-ax cable....

I'm guessing your PC is accessing local disk or network files, or a streaming service, and you use a GUI to set up what is being played.....

I hate to suggest fixes that involve spending hard-earned cash on replacing something you have, but:

One way round the issue is to buy a DAC-streamer unit into the amp, and use wifi (or even ethernet!) to connect that device with the PC. The DAC streamer would be able to access online streaming services, if that is your thing, and will typically be able to use DLNA with your PC running a simple DLNA server like this: https://www.universalmediaserver.com/ - loads of free choices though, and you could use VLC or FB2K as a server too on the PC, but a little bit more fiddling about there to set up than UMS.
 

Killingbeans

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Topping D10 will give you both toslink and analog balanced outputs. Does the reciever have balanced inputs or only RCA?
 
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Deleted member 46664

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I've put the PC fairly far away from the amplifiers. Not had much success running long RCAs and a 5m USB seems similar with bringing noise into the equation.

What's the best cable for a 15-20m run? I was thinking USB to optical or coax at the PC end and a long run in either of those might be the best bet? Using either another DAC or straight into the receiver.
I would run USB with an "external sound card" at the Amplifier end.
I've used THESE with pretty good results ... they're totally plug and play and should work from the first try.
My product review is HERE .

The reasoning is that USB is highly noise immune where RCA cables are not.
 
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conqueeftador

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Components are as follows. PC and server are in the room next to the HT/Office.

20m optical HDMI feeds a Denon 3700H used as a preamp. This is unreliable, causes flashing and doesn't sound great, so I wanted to bypass it for stereo. The other reason is the each pair of surround and rear surround of the HT also runs an office stereo pair or another atmos system. So each pair of the rears are fed into a Musical Fidelity X-A1 integrated where Aux 1 is stereo, 2 is the office surround and 3 the HT. 10m RCAs are making noise, so I'll be moving the X-A1 pair up front. Front 3 power amplifiers are Musical Fidelity X-A200. Heights done with a Tag Mclaren 5x100R.

I have a D10s and an E50 although this has failed with PNL Error.

Isn't easy to test a 1m RCA, I'd have to lug alot of equipment around. Issue with the DAC streamer is when I am using the PC for other things such as a quick video whilst browsing. I do have a couple pi based streamers that rarely got used but will get a new life soon in another room.

Only RCA on the receiver and amps. Using the D10 seems like a good idea but the main question is whether to run 20 meters of USB, Coax, or optical?

I would have thought the USB extension could cause noise since they use some sort of signal amplifier past 5m?
 

Killingbeans

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Using the D10 seems like a good idea but the main question is whether to run 20 meters of USB, Coax, or optical?

Optical would be best. But 20 meters in one run is definitely not recommended. Don't know if toslink repeaters is a thing?

Some sort of ethernet solution might be the only option at that lenght.
 

JayGilb

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Components are as follows. PC and server are in the room next to the HT/Office.

20m optical HDMI feeds a Denon 3700H used as a preamp. This is unreliable, causes flashing and doesn't sound great, so I wanted to bypass it for stereo. The other reason is the each pair of surround and rear surround of the HT also runs an office stereo pair or another atmos system. So each pair of the rears are fed into a Musical Fidelity X-A1 integrated where Aux 1 is stereo, 2 is the office surround and 3 the HT. 10m RCAs are making noise, so I'll be moving the X-A1 pair up front. Front 3 power amplifiers are Musical Fidelity X-A200. Heights done with a Tag Mclaren 5x100R.

I have a D10s and an E50 although this has failed with PNL Error.

Isn't easy to test a 1m RCA, I'd have to lug alot of equipment around. Issue with the DAC streamer is when I am using the PC for other things such as a quick video whilst browsing. I do have a couple pi based streamers that rarely got used but will get a new life soon in another room.

Only RCA on the receiver and amps. Using the D10 seems like a good idea but the main question is whether to run 20 meters of USB, Coax, or optical?

I would have thought the USB extension could cause noise since they use some sort of signal amplifier past 5m?
You could also try a USB->Ethernet -----> Ethernet->USB
The converters can be purchased for less than $20 USD each and should allow for a long distance run.
 
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conqueeftador

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You could also try a USB->Ethernet -----> Ethernet->USB
The converters can be purchased for less than $20 USD each and should allow for a long distance run.
Sounds like it would be a better idea than USB extenders, but could that conversion process add noise?
 

Gorgonzola

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Don't know about a "best" solution but, as I understand, a good, powered USA hub can boost the USB signal and extend the range beyond the 15 ft. recommended maximum. Personally I used a Schiit Wyrd device, (no longer offered by Schiit), that allows me to extend my computer USB signal a bit beyond 20 ft.

Schiit claimed that the purpose of the Wyrd is to reduce noise. Amir tested the Wyrd and concluded that the reduced noise claim was unwarranted in case of any properly designed DAC. While that is doubtless valid, the Wyrd is an effective hub and, at least in my case, permits a longer than 15 ft. cable run.
 
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Deleted member 46664

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Don't know about a "best" solution but, as I understand, a good, powered USA hub can boost the USB signal and extend the range beyond the 15 ft. recommended maximum. Personally I used a Schiit Wyrd device, (no longer offered by Schiit), that allows me to extend my computer USB signal a bit beyond 20 ft.

Schiit claimed that the purpose of the Wyrd is to reduce noise. Amir tested the Wyrd and concluded that the reduced noise claim was unwarranted in case of any properly designed DAC. While that is doubtless valid, the Wyrd is an effective hub and, at least in my case, permits a longer than 15 ft. cable run.

If you use USB 1 or 2 devices you can go a lot further ... I have a 50 foot extension cord here for a USB2 printer and it works perfectly. That's one of the reasons I recommended the Ugreen DAC...
 

Jmudrick

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Components are as follows. PC and server are in the room next to the HT/Office.

20m optical HDMI feeds a Denon 3700H used as a preamp. This is unreliable, causes flashing and doesn't sound great, so I wanted to bypass it for stereo. The other reason is the each pair of surround and rear surround of the HT also runs an office stereo pair or another atmos system. So each pair of the rears are fed into a Musical Fidelity X-A1 integrated where Aux 1 is stereo, 2 is the office surround and 3 the HT. 10m RCAs are making noise, so I'll be moving the X-A1 pair up front. Front 3 power amplifiers are Musical Fidelity X-A200. Heights done with a Tag Mclaren 5x100R.

I have a D10s and an E50 although this has failed with PNL Error.

Isn't easy to test a 1m RCA, I'd have to lug alot of equipment around. Issue with the DAC streamer is when I am using the PC for other things such as a quick video whilst browsing. I do have a couple pi based streamers that rarely got used but will get a new life soon in another room.

Only RCA on the receiver and amps. Using the D10 seems like a good idea but the main question is whether to run 20 meters of USB, Coax, or optical?

I would have thought the USB extension could cause noise since they use some sort of signal amplifier past 5m?
Not sure I've got your system rightas I don't do HT but I wouldn't run anything other than balanced over that long a run , meaning putting a USB to balanced transport close to the computer, and a balanced to optical or spdif at the avr/DAC/amp
 
D

Deleted member 46664

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Not sure I've got your system rightas I don't do HT but I wouldn't run anything other than balanced over that long a run , meaning putting a USB to balanced transport close to the computer, and a balanced to optical or spdif at the avr/DAC/amp
USB is balanced ... in digital they call it "differential signalling"... The two centre pins are Data+ and Data-
https://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/usb-connector-pinout
 

Vincent Kars

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USB standard says 5m max.
Another option is PC > USB >DAC (all at a close distance) and from there analog over XLR (balanced). This assumes DAC and amp do have balanced in/out.
This is what I'm using as my DAC is both my pre-amp and headphone amp and I like it close to the source , my PC.
 
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Deleted member 46664

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I thought USB was reliable over shorter distance. Good to know.
USB3 is the one with the silly length restrictions.

Like I said ... I have a printer running on a 50 foot extension, been like that for a couple of years, no problem.
 
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Lambda

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10m RCAs are making noise, so I'll be moving the X-A1 pair up front.
This is to be expected with un balanced cables.
especially if a PC is involved and if you have ground loops this big.

I would say use Toslink for the long run from PC to DAC and an extra DAC.

so you maybe need an USB to toslink converter and an toslink input DAC
USB standard says 5m max.
What the standard says an whats possible in realty are to complexity different things.
I have done USB2 over 20m Eathernet cable with no problem.
but i would a an active hub at the end because you might have some voltage loss over the cable.
 
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