PC/Desk + PSB AM5s -- possible upgrade paths -- 8030c/KH 120II ?

[AGT]

Hi all,

Been reading up a fair bit on the Genelec 8030c & Neumann KH120ii as a possible upgrade path for desktop/PC usage, mainly listen to Qobuz through the BluOS, sometimes through USB-C for Youtube stuff.

Current setup is;
Bluesound Node Icon (DAC/Streamer -- with Dirac)
PSB AM5 (speakers)
PSB Subseries 250 (sub)

The Icon is going via RCA into the AM5s and also feeds the sub. BluOS does the crossover (and Dirac filter selection).
Dirac made such an unbelievable difference, it is mental - totally transformed the sound.

Q is, is it worth upgrading to some 8030cs or KH120iis?
I've never heard either but the AM5s sound pretty darn good i'd say - had em for a fair while now though and the potential upgrades mentioned seem delicious according to the internet.


Thx for any input

 

[staticV3]

Hi @AGT! Welcome to ASR.

Below is Amir's review of the PSB P5, which is the passive version of the AM5 (same cabinet and drivers)

PSB Alpha P5 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PSB Alpha, 2-way budget speaker. I purchased it a couple of months ago from Amazon. Cost is US $349 there including Prime shipping. If you are not familiar with PSB, those are initials of Paul Barton. Paul worked under/with Dr. Folyd Toole...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'd say that even with Dirac room correction, the upgrade would be worth it.

 

[AGT]

Hi @AGT! Welcome to ASR.

Below is Amir's review of the PSB P5, which is the passive version of the AM5 (same cabinet and drivers)

PSB Alpha P5 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PSB Alpha, 2-way budget speaker. I purchased it a couple of months ago from Amazon. Cost is US $349 there including Prime shipping. If you are not familiar with PSB, those are initials of Paul Barton. Paul worked under/with Dr. Folyd Toole...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'd say that even with Dirac room correction, the upgrade would be worth it.

Oh my dear lord..
Thx for that info static, apologies i should have searched for the P5 initially .

What on earth have i been listening to!
8030cs will probably be the way to go or at least a slightly cheaper starting point and make a world of difference, although I've heard they hiss for some people which is a worry potentially.

Thx again, will do a tad more research perhaps.

 

[rirelien]

Oh my dear lord..
Thx for that info static, apologies i should have searched for the P5 initially .

What on earth have i been listening to!
8030cs will probably be the way to go or at least a slightly cheaper starting point and make a world of difference, although I've heard they hiss for some people which is a worry potentially.

Thx again, will do a tad more research perhaps.

The measurements don’t lie, but not quite sure if the AM5, which has non-defeatable DSP, is not slightly different. And depending on how you did your Dirac Live setup, you have further compensated for your location and listening setup.

I would strongly argue trying out upgrades in your own space, and be open to the idea that the law of diminishing returns is going to kick in fast…

 

[AnalogSteph]

What on earth have i been listening to!

I mean, you did say that Dirac made one heck of a difference, so that should have been a clue...

Given that I could make even this mess sound fairly decent (which sports a classic single-capacitor crossover)...

...you're not actually in a terrible position. The resonances coming out of the port could be tackled with some elbow grease (this thread should be of interest), and dispersion looks decent enough for nearfield use (ideally somewhat off-axis), though the vertical is of some concern around crossover.

Do you have some way of measuring what you are dealing with? The above was taken with a fairly modest setup: Sonarworks mic on EVO 4, MMM with mic pointing at speaker for use with 0° compensation, REW.

8030cs will probably be the way to go or at least a slightly cheaper starting point and make a world of difference, although I've heard they hiss for some people which is a worry potentially.

Depends on your listening distance and how sensitive you are to it, also it's potentially influenced by sensitivity settings. The general consensus is "usually low enough but not consistently inaudible".

That, incidentally, is the next issue I'd like to tackle with the above, as the electronic volume in the accompanying SA-PM01 receiver gets a tad hissy if you crank it. It's a 25-year-old micro stereo, so yeah...

 

[rirelien]

To add to the post by AnalogSteph, I found that two things are absolutely vital for desktop use:

1. Stands to raise the speakers to an adequate height, so you’re on the right vertical axis.
2. EQ. I use Dirac and it makes an enormous difference, removing all the mid upper bass boominess.

Next to these, I do believe changing the PSBs will be more incremental. I assume you’ve done the first one already?

 

[AGT]

Thanks for the input guys.

@AnalogSteph you're bang on the money. What I thought was 'good' to me was likely not actually all that good
@rirelien I am sad to say that I have been wanting to raise them to ear level for a long time now but never got round to it. I have tried bringing my body/head down to be more in line with the woofer and it did add some 'brightness' to the sound, but nothing I would call major. And I currently don't have them toed-in either.

Sorry if this isn't the most sophisticated response - I'm not overly technical when it comes to audio.

EDIT: Forgot to note that I'm around 0.75m to 1.0m from the speakers which are on my desk (speakers ~1ft from back wall which is concrete).

 

[AnalogSteph]

@rirelien I am sad to say that I have been wanting to raise them to ear level for a long time now but never got round to it.

Then that would be a good thing to tackle along the way, especially with these having the tweeter on the bottom. I can't imagine that's not resulting in a mess. Or have you already turned them
¿uʍop ǝpᴉsdn

BTW, it appears that calling these "active" appears to be a bit of a stretch, "powered" would be more correct. The secondary speaker connects with regular speaker twin lead so must have a passive crossover. On a "proper" active speaker set you would find some sort of 4-pin job. The 2x 50 W power spec is another clue.

On another note, how would you be connecting something like 8030Cs? I wouldn't want to see you running into ground loop issues straight away.

 

[AGT]

Then that would be a good thing to tackle along the way, especially with these having the tweeter on the bottom. I can't imagine that's not resulting in a mess. Or have you already turned them
¿uʍop ǝpᴉsdn

BTW, it appears that calling these "active" appears to be a bit of a stretch, "powered" would be more correct. The secondary speaker connects with regular speaker twin lead so must have a passive crossover. On a "proper" active speaker set you would find some sort of 4-pin job. The 2x 50 W power spec is another clue.

On another note, how would you be connecting something like 8030Cs? I wouldn't want to see you running into ground loop issues straight away.

Hmm I think I'll leave the mess 'right side up' for now .

Thanks for that info.

That's a good point, hopefully I'll be ok for when they arrive.. I'll be using the XLR balanced out from my Node Icon - guessing that's the best option?

 

[AGT]

For everyone's informations (hopefully someone may be able to gain some helpful take-away) I have gone with the G Three (B)s in the RAW coloring and they sound absolutely bonkers to me.

Running from my Node Icon with Dirac (full bandwidth correction) via XLRs - set up on some stands about 8-inch-high on a desk, pointed at my ears, approx ~80-100cm away L/R. Also using a sub as seen in initial post with crossover (via Bluesound app) set to 80Hz.

Build quality is amazing.
Super-easy to set up.
Left the gain switches on default setting - faint hissing but barely noticeable and certainly not annoying to me (very pleased here).

So much power from these things (much more than enough in my circumstance)! - turned down the max volume level setting in the Bluesound App to smooth-out volume control.

The G Threes make my previous PSB AM5s look/sound like cheap toys in comparison.
They are the clearest set of loudspeakers I have ever heard - absolutely 100% hearing detail in tracks that was never heard before.

 

[physicsplace]

If your AM5S still satisfy you, I'm not sure that the upgrade is essential. But between the 8030c and KH120ii, the Neumann are often praised for their precision. I tested the Genelec, great soundstage and clarity, especially at low volume. If you want a real leap in quality, it may be worth it, but test before if possible!

 

[AnalogSteph]

Left the gain switches on default setting - faint hissing but barely noticeable and certainly not annoying to me (very pleased here).

So much power from these things (much more than enough in my circumstance)! - turned down the max volume level setting in the Bluesound App to smooth-out volume control.

Sounds like you should at least consider turning on the "LEVEL -10 dB" DIP switch. Though if that doesn't make a difference to hiss levels, you might as well be using digital attenuation in the Node... dual ES9039Q2Ms should normally provide plenty of dynamic range.

 

[hashhar]

Genelec has a FAQ with recommendation about what sensitivity to use for monitors. I can't find link right now but it was to use highest sensitivity and control volume in GLM for their SAM models. For non-SAM you'd want max volume on source and lowest sensitivity on the monitor very likely.

See https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...ital-audio-sources-and-optimize-dynamic-range and follow the next article as well by clicking "Next" at bottom.

 

[AGT]

Thanks for the input all.

I tried the level -10dB switches - the faint hissing is the same level to my ears (not annoying at all).

@hashhar - would that involve an additional piece of hardware for volume control? Currently just adjusting volume from the Node Icon of course. Sounds fantastic to me. Then again I am indeed not an audio pro .