Paul McGowan (PS Audio) is back with another silly "Power Plant" video

[TonyJZX]

i think this is another case of PT Barnum selling pretty beads to mooks.

Just because someone has the veneer of civility doesnt mean there's nothing suspicious going on behind the scenes.

And the premise that because he runs a 'successful business" doesnt mean he's all above board, at least to the standards of this place.

Again, if my income was derived from selling 'ps power plants' then I too would sing their praises. Its surprising to me that people who arent on their pay sheets ALSO sing their praises...

 

[Purité Audio]

I don't accept the impedance argument was 'thoroughly' debunked at all. It was an unprofessional hit-job on someone who certain people think is an easy target. Thing is, Paul McGowan has the last laugh and he remains a gentlemen throughout the entire fiasco. Just another ugly ASR pile-on that makes all involved look really silly.

I bet he's already sold more of the Powerplants, thanks to noise made on certain internet forums. Good on him I say.

So, what is the actual output impedance of the PS audio device? We know Amir's initial measurement was completely wrong. A second or third measurement showed two different numbers including one about half his mains supply impedance.

A ‘gentlemen’, he is the furthest thing from a gentlemen.
He is a flimflam artist.
Keith

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

PSAudio must sell one hell of a lot of these magic boxes because they can apparently afford a building with dozens and dozens of different rooms for Paul to sit in for his friendly vids. He's just always somewhere in that building doing magical audio stuff when someone comes along with a camera and says "Hey Paul can you answer a quick question for us?" and he just stops what ever magical audio research he's in the middle of and says "Welllllll SURE!"

"where do you want to film today Paul?"

"Well, why don't you meet me in the West Wing, Audio Lab 7, room 26...in the auditorium."

 

[theREALdotnet]

Just another ugly ASR pile-on that makes all involved look really silly.

To be fair, most hobbies wouldn’t need Internet forums if it weren’t for tribalism

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

What would really make us look silly is if someone could actually show there's any audible benefit to any of these quite-costly products.

 

[Purité Audio]

If they really did make a difference then you would imagine that an enterprising manufacturer might make something of it, but no…
Keith

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Did he confirmed that they own an AP?
Waiting for the data then

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

If they really did make a difference then you would imagine that an enterprising manufacturer might make something of it, but no…
Keith

I mean yeah. Can you imagine how many of these things would be sold if some company was able to offer verifiable evidence that there's a real audible benefit?

Instead, it's the audio equivalent of Quantum Entanglement where the benefit only occurs once you observe that the power plant is switched on. Without actually observing that, there is no audible benefit. But if you do observe that the power plant is on, the benefit is there...and it's real! lol

 

[Gibsonian]

So why not test one hooked up to a high current consuming amp and see what changes occur within the amp output during high dynamic current drawing music and compare to just plugged into an outlet? Or was this already done? Output of your amp is the target improvement right?

 

[TonyJZX]

i also think its childish if you think people here give a flying fuck about other members opinions or peoples opinions on these kinds of issues

follow the science, everything else is marketing

 

[voodooless]

So why not test one hooked up to a high current consuming amp and see what changes occur within the amp output during high dynamic current drawing music and compare to just plugged into an outlet? Or was this already done?

Yes, it was: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-p12-review-part-2-power-testing.31432/

Output of your amp is the target improvement right?

Not according to PS Audio:

With your system powered directly from the output of the P12, you can expect far better micro and macro dynamics, as well as cleaner, lower background noise

 

[TonyJZX]

another way to look at it...

this thing is $2,000 right? is it going to make $2,000 worth of difference to my system?

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

That may be your question, but it sure isn't mine. I like to ask my own questions, thanks.

So, you also do not know the supply impedance of the PS audio device? Maybe it's in a spec someplace- I didn't see it?

PS Audio P12 Review Part 2: Power Testing

@restorer-john @amirm So are you saying that the 10% drop in power of the amp could be due to a voltage regulation DOWN by the P12 in the face of a high voltage MAINS ? That is most likely the case. Add some additional voltage sag for the transformer saturating at high power, and your there...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That's my line impedance. What's yours and how much modulation of primary and secondary supplies in your amplifiers have you observed under dynamic conditions? (hint: it's more than you'd think)

A high power amplifier operating at an elevated level modulates the supply to itself and any and all other devices plugged into the same circuit/power board. The PS Audio device regulates the supply, offers a low supply impedance, demonstrably lower than most peoples' power outlets and is proven to maintain its output voltage within a tighter range. That is a good thing and nobody with the slightest semblance of intelligence could argue otherwise.

And what is this:


Don't ask me to be a spokesperson for PS Audio. It's not my job, I don't work for them and I make zero claims in relation to their product. I look at the whole picture objectively. Just stop the puerile keel-hauling attacks on a company and a man. It's just pathetic and has been going on for way too long on ASR.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we can do a whole lot better.

I believe that in a broader point of view, most of us are well-intentioned and want to help others realize the vagueness and even outright baseless claims from salesman.

But I have to agree with you here, some dudes here (only a small minority) occasionally say things that feel a little uncalled for, and the undertones they use are not good for anyone. Furthermore some people here are only parroting things from other knowledgeable folks like Amir while not truly understanding the subject. I've seen it a couple of times, when asked, they just bring up some sources, that I'm not even sure if they did read them all and understand them correctly, and can't do the explanations by themselves. This act of not understanding but strongly believing something must be right is not that different from the beliefs of "audiofools" they mock.

 

[fpitas]

another way to look at it...

this thing is $2,000 right? is it going to make $2,000 worth of difference to my system?

Probably no difference at all in objective reality. You might feel better.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

another way to look at it...

this thing is $2,000 right? is it going to make $2,000 worth of difference to my system?

hmmm...well if the difference it makes is worth $2000, then the difference made by moving the position of your head a few inches forward or backward relative to your speakers must be worth roughly $200,000...

 

[TonyJZX]

well $2,000 is a low price to pay to improve my feelings about my self worth

SOLD!

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Amp manufacturers should start selling amps based on the stated fact that "this amp is louder than any other amp." Then, when a bunch of people measure the output of the amp and find that it is in fact no louder than any number of other amps they should say something like "your equipment isn't resolving enough" or "measurements don't tell the whole story."

 

[fpitas]

Amp manufacturers should start selling amps based on the stated fact that "this amp is louder than any other amp." Then, when a bunch of people measure the output of the amp and find that it is in fact no louder than any number of other amps they should say something like "your equipment isn't resolving enough" or "measurments don't tell the whole story."

You know they would.

ASR can prove things all they like, but some people just want to be edgy, and feel rebellious. I guess it's their money to waste.

 

[FrantzM]

I don't accept the impedance argument was 'thoroughly' debunked at all. It was an unprofessional hit-job on someone who certain people think is an easy target. Thing is, Paul McGowan has the last laugh and he remains a gentlemen throughout the entire fiasco. Just another ugly ASR pile-on that makes all involved look really silly.

I bet he's already sold more of the Powerplants, thanks to noise made on certain internet forums. Good on him I say.

So, what is the actual output impedance of the PS audio device? We know Amir's initial measurement was completely wrong. A second or third measurement showed two different numbers including one about half his mains supply impedance.

Hi @restorer-john

Your level of competence on things Audio, surpasses mine (and others ...) by several light-years. I find however this reply disconcerting. Asking the question: are we condoning the practice of selling voodooware to audiophiles? Which is what, I seem to see in this particular paragraph and I am quoting you:

I bet he's already sold more of the Powerplants, thanks to noise made on certain internet forums. Good on him I say.

Seriously ???!!! Does that make it right ? Does the product in question provides the things he says? Does its use result in better performance? In the name of making money, anything goes???

Let's continue for a bit: the impedance argument has indeed been thoroughly debunked,

As another test, I have an Ideal AC line tester, the 61-164. This is a $400 instrument for quick and useful powerline measurements. One of its unique features is ability to measure the impedance of each of the three lines in your AC mains. Let's focus on the Hot wire and see how my standard power strip that I use for powering everything ("Raw AC") performs:

Impedance is just 0.26 ohm. When we remodeled our home I made sure every circuit is powered using 12 gauge as opposed to 14. And my power strip is a beefy one as well. I am also not hugely far from our breaker panel.

Now let's power the PS Audio P12 using the Pangea power cord and measure the impedance of its high current outlets I used for previous testing:

As you see, impedance has jumped to 3 ohm or more than 10 times higher! I should note that I don't know how accurate this measurement is but given the wide differential, we can likely rely on the fact that PS Audio P12 *system* does have higher impedance. I wrote "system" there because P12 introduces yet another AC cord and outlet so naturally those contribute to degrading its impedance. In other words, we are measuring the whole thing, not just some internal impedance.

I could be wrong : Were there a 3rd review, a Part 3? If not ...

To me , an EE, ( although the reservations of poor audio and undergrad electronics circuit design knowledge) , that is proof enough.. I could grant you that there could be a case of a malfunctioning unit but .... that is stretching it, .don't you think?

Concerning the output impedance of an AC outlet, there are more inexpensive alternative, the famous "dedicated" lines so esteemed by audiophiles come to mind, other?

At the end, in your opinion, one that I sincerely value, would you agree with statements such as :

A P15 gives you greatly improved performance and safety from just plugging into the wall socket and far better dynamics, bass and a much bigger, open soundstage than any power conditioner on the market.

the emphasis in bold is mine

Would you?

It is thus, to me, fair that we pile on this ... pile of bovine manure. Meanwhile, the HEA press will be singing paeans to box of dirt and power cords and ... other type of bovine feces.
It is thus fortunate that there is an ASR and more and more people who believe in Science, not in BS.


Peace.

 

[diddley]

The old man is just another con artist imho @restorer-john and i am a noob, but see through the difference between his advertising and what the apparatus really does.With the help of many here at ASR.