Passive speakers + active sub noob questions

[rofub]

I've wanted to get into Hi-Fi audio for some time now, but whenever I tried to find some decent source of information I would just end up finding snake oil, affiliate links and subjective opinions (I guess that is what internet is nowadays). That is until I found this wonderful website. At the moment I don't own any relevant hardware. I want to get a pair of bookshelf speakers along with a subwoofer for nearfield listening ($2000-2500 budget) and have a couple of noob questions.

I want to get passive speakers, as intuitively they should have better longevity. Since this is where I plan to spend most of the money I want to decouple them from other components like amplifier and technology like bluetooth that will break/become obsolete sooner and need replacement. Does that make sense?

Is there a subwoofer that could also act as an amplifier for passive speakers? I could find none. It seems a little bit weird - since a sub has to have a powerful amp why not lend some of that power to the speakers?

Is it okay if I just plug the amp to my PC (skip DAC)? More specifically it would probably be [motherboard line out -> sub line in, sub line out -> amp line in].

And lastly - is preference score measured for subs or just the CEA-2010-A?

Thank you everyone for this awesome forum.

 

[EdTice]

I've wanted to get into Hi-Fi audio for some time now, but whenever I tried to find some decent source of information I would just end up finding snake oil, affiliate links and subjective opinions (I guess that is what internet is nowadays). That is until I found this wonderful website. At the moment I don't own any relevant hardware. I want to get a pair of bookshelf speakers along with a subwoofer for nearfield listening ($2000-2500 budget) and have a couple of noob questions.

I want to get passive speakers, as intuitively they should have better longevity. Since this is where I plan to spend most of the money I want to decouple them from other components like amplifier and technology like bluetooth that will break/become obsolete sooner and need replacement. Does that make sense?

Is there a subwoofer that could also act as an amplifier for passive speakers? I could find none. It seems a little bit weird - since a sub has to have a powerful amp why not lend some of that power to the speakers?

Is it okay if I just plug the amp to my PC (skip DAC)? More specifically it would probably be [motherboard line out -> sub line in, sub line out -> amp line in].

And lastly - is preference score measured for subs or just the CEA-2010-A?

Thank you everyone for this awesome forum.

I'm not aware of any subwoofer that also acts as the amplifier for passive speakers. And I'm not sure you'd want that anyway. It sounds like what you want is a DAC with subwoofer output and digital volume control, a speaker amplifier, and a subwoofer. Your budget is more than enough to get *very* good components in all of these areas.

With that budget, I think you would be happiest with a Topping DX3 Pro+ DAC, Genelec 8030C desktop speakers, and an SVS SB1000 subwoofer. But others might make different suggestions. And my choices here are for active speakers which is not what you wanted.

If you insist on passive speakers, the Polk R200s will get you there and leave you enough for a Nord One Amp or something similar.

In general, though, active speakers are a better deal and I'm not sure why you are opposed to them.

 

[rofub]

Thank you for your answer! At the moment I am considering KEF R3 + Loxjie A30 + SB1000 Pro. The system you proposed seems like a really good option too.

In general, though, active speakers are a better deal and I'm not sure why you are opposed to them.

I've heard that passive speakers can last over 20 years. I am not sure if the same can be said about active speakers. Intuitively the electronics inside them probably won't live that long. I am also huge fan of decoupling/modularity in general. So the strategy I came up with is to just buy the best passive speakers right now and minimal electronics to power them.

The Genelecs seem perfect for my use case at the moment though. I probably need to rethink this all. Thanks again.

 

[EdTice]

I've heard that passive speakers can last over 20 years. I am not sure if the same can be said about active speakers. Intuitively the electronics inside them probably won't live that long. I am also huge fan of decoupling/modularity in general. So the strategy I came up with is to just buy the best passive speakers right now and minimal electronics to power them.

where did you hear this? Both passive speakers and amplifiers can last a very long time. Put them in the same package and they can still both last a long time. The downside of an active speaker is that if either the amplifier unit or a driver component (or crossover) breaks beyond repair, you have to replace the entire unit.

Amplifiers and speakers from twenty years ago are still being refurbished and put to good use. I'm not sure how serviceable things manufactured today are. The trend is toward disposable. I can't speak for Genelec, but Velodyne still offers parts for twenty year old active subs.

 

[JayGilb]

Is it okay if I just plug the amp to my PC (skip DAC)? More specifically it would probably be [motherboard line out -> sub line in, sub line out -> amp line in].

While this would be a functional option, I personally would look into purchasing a separate DAC with a volume control to place between the PC's usb out and the amplifier's input. DACs are available that have left/right main as well as a sub level output if you choose to go with a powered sub.

 

[EdTice]

While this would be a functional option, I personally would look into purchasing a separate DAC with a volume control to place between the PC's usb out and the amplifier's input. DACs are available that have left/right main as well as a sub level output if you choose to go with a powered sub.

I'm confused. The Loxjie A30 has both digital and analog inputs. But it doesn't have analog circuitry. The "line out" from the PC will most likely be driven by a low-end DAC with a maximum 0.75V of output. You'll have to read the A30 manual but there are only two things that can be done with such a signal. It could be directly amplified and sent to the speakers as well as "summed" and sent to the subwoofer in which case you get no bass management. Or it could be reconverted to digital, handled as if it were USB input, and then output. In the former case you lose features. In the latter case you get a signal degraded by the PCs low-end audio output. The line out option is like the worst of both worlds.

 

[JayGilb]

I'm confused. The Loxjie A30 has both digital and analog inputs. But it doesn't have analog circuitry. The "line out" from the PC will most likely be driven by a low-end DAC with a maximum 0.75V of output. You'll have to read the A30 manual but there are only two things that can be done with such a signal. It could be directly amplified and sent to the speakers as well as "summed" and sent to the subwoofer in which case you get no bass management. Or it could be reconverted to digital, handled as if it were USB input, and then output. In the former case you lose features. In the latter case you get a signal degraded by the PCs low-end audio output. The line out option is like the worst of both worlds.

That is why I recommended they purchase a DAC with a volume control that uses a USB connection from the PC as an input.

 

[rofub]

While this would be a functional option

That was my plan originally, before I knew integrated amps like A30 exist. A30 can, in particular, act as a DAC with volume control. So assuming I go the passive route it would look like this:

PC USB -> A30 -> amplified analog to passive speakers
\
not amplified analog to active subwoofer through "sub out"

From the ASR review we know that digital input should work well.

where did you hear this? Both passive speakers and amplifiers can last a very long time.

You are right, thanks for summarizing it nicely. Putting aside the passive vs active issue, there are some other constraints. For now I will keep the speakers on/near my desk, but I plan to move them to the living room eventually. For that I would probably need a more classy Hi-Fi look than studio monitors like the Genelecs can usually offer, AKA wife factor . Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

 

[JayGilb]

That was my plan originally, before I knew integrated amps like A30 exist. A30 can, in particular, act as a DAC with volume control. So assuming I go the passive route it would look like this:

PC USB -> A30 -> amplified analog to passive speakers
\
not amplified analog to active subwoofer through "sub out"

From the ASR review we know that digital input should work well.


You are right, thanks for summarizing it nicely. Putting aside the passive vs active issue, there are some other constraints. For now I will keep the speakers on/near my desk, but I plan to move them to the living room eventually. For that I would probably need a more classy Hi-Fi look than studio monitors like the Genelecs can usually offer, AKA wife factor . Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

With the A30 having a subwoofer line level out, functionality wise, it would be a good fit for your current wish list.
Very small footprint as well, which might be favorable (wife factor) when it shifts to the living room.

Lots of reviewed passive book shelf speakers on ASR as well as Erin's Audio Corner for you to look at that should be under your current budget.

 

[EdTice]

That was my plan originally, before I knew integrated amps like A30 exist. A30 can, in particular, act as a DAC with volume control. So assuming I go the passive route it would look like this:

PC USB -> A30 -> amplified analog to passive speakers
\
not amplified analog to active subwoofer through "sub out"

From the ASR review we know that digital input should work well.


You are right, thanks for summarizing it nicely. Putting aside the passive vs active issue, there are some other constraints. For now I will keep the speakers on/near my desk, but I plan to move them to the living room eventually. For that I would probably need a more classy Hi-Fi look than studio monitors like the Genelecs can usually offer, AKA wife factor . Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

I have a set of Genelec 8030As in my dining room. I think they look cool. I'll ask my wife. They are on some custom-made birch speaker stands that are very attractive which might be why I get away with it. The 8030s are too small to use for midfield listening. You need bigger drivers for that. Unless your living room is very small (10ftx12 ft or so) you won't be happy using them as mains in the living room. They would make great surrounds if you can get past WAF

 

[rofub]

Lots of reviewed passive book shelf speakers on ASR as well as Erin's Audio Corner for you to look at that should be under your current budget.

Went over lots of these, still like the R3s the most. Thanks.

I have a set of Genelec 8030As in my dining room. I think they look cool. I'll ask my wife. They are on some custom-made birch speaker stands that are very attractive which might be why I get away with it. The 8030s are too small to use for midfield listening. You need bigger drivers for that. Unless your living room is very small (10ftx12 ft or so) you won't be happy using them as mains in the living room. They would make great surrounds if you can get past WAF

Did some more research and I've sort of fallen in love with the 8030Cs, to the point where I consider getting them exclusively for my PC desk. But some people report a slight hiss coming from the tweeter. I'm really sensitive to high-pitched noise so that would drive me insane. Could you share your experience?

Also can't wait to hear what your wife thinks
So far everyone I asked told me they don't like what the Genelecs look like, unfortunately. It's probably acquired taste.

 

[EdTice]

Went over lots of these, still like the R3s the most. Thanks.


Did some more research and I've sort of fallen in love with the 8030Cs, to the point where I consider getting them exclusively for my PC desk. But some people report a slight hiss coming from the tweeter. I'm really sensitive to high-pitched noise so that would drive me insane. Could you share your experience?

Also can't wait to hear what your wife thinks
So far everyone I asked told me they don't like what the Genelecs look like, unfortunately. It's probably acquired taste.

My wife likes the speaker stands enough that she can at least tolerate the speakers. I think they look pretty attractive.

I have considered moving these to my PC desk. They actually work well in the corners since the cabinets aren't completely square, though. This is a small dining room so the listening isn't much further than they would be on a desk. I've posted in some of the other threads here about in-ceiling speakers because of their ability to fit into decor well. I've been told to just hang these Genelecs from the ceiling by some of the more die hard (and presumably single) HT fans.

I don't hear any hiss from these speakers. I have the highly recommended Kali LP6v2s as well. They do have a small amount of audible hiss. These are 8030A not 8030C so something could have changed. Unlike the Kalis (where its not recommended but no reason given), for these speakers, if you do hear a hiss, there's no reason (that I know of) that you can't just turn them down to where it's inaudible and increase the input voltage.

 

[Head_Unit]

I've heard that passive speakers can last over 20 years. I am not sure if the same can be said about active speakers. Intuitively the electronics inside them probably won't live that long.

As a loudspeaker engineer I'll concur. 30 years. Heck 60 years for some...
- Though foam surrounds pretty much rot
- And some capacitors can "dry out"
Theoretically active speakers could have design advantages, though to realize these the most they would need digital input. Absolutely nothing wrong with going passive.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Absolutely nothing wrong with going passive.

Or active.