Passive Speaker Recommendations for USA (by @sweetchaos)

[sweetchaos]

• Is it limited to what can fit into the Klippel measurement device?

I'm curating the list of speakers for which we have spinorama (CEA-2034) measurements for. Some of these come from Klippel NFS (performed by Amir, Erin or 3rd parties), some come from the quasi-anechoic measurements methods (performed by Erin prior to getting Klippel NFS or napilopez) and some are provided by vendors themselves (say from Revel or Kef).

• Is anything above $14k not considered? Is that why there's not a single famous US name like Wilson, Magico, Devore Fidelity, etc.

We only have spinorama for 2 Magico speakers (here), 1 spinorama for Wilson (here), and nothing for Devore Fidelity.
These speakers don't make my list since their preference score is too low and/or lacking at all.
In other words, I won't be recommending speakers without seeing spinorama first.
For a few well-measuring companies like Neumann, Kef, Genelec, etc, I will add their models without spinorama to my list, since we can easily predict their performance.

• Why are electrostatic speakers not being considered (most natural sound according to many)?

We have a few spinoramas for electrostatic speakers (here). But, as we know, electrostatic speakers don't measure well using CEA-2034 protocol. Which means they'll never have a good preference score. It's one of the speakers that won't make my list, unfortunately. But, I will say this, if you're considering electrostatic speakers, then you're going against the traditional speaker route, in which case, you can safely ignore my list since you already know what you want. People that buy electrostatic speakers already know that traditional speakers won't work for them.

 

[OCA]

I'm curating the list of speakers for which we have spinorama (CEA-2034) measurements for. Some of these come from Klippel NFS (performed by Amir, Erin or 3rd parties), some come from the quasi-anechoic measurements methods (performed by Erin prior to getting Klippel NFS or napilopez) and some are provided by vendors themselves (say from Revel or Kef).



We only have spinorama for 2 Magico speakers (here), 1 spinorama for Wilson (here), and nothing for Devore Fidelity.
These speakers don't make my list since their preference score is too low and/or lacking at all.
In other words, I won't be recommending speakers without seeing spinorama first.
For a few well-measuring companies like Neumann, Kef, Genelec, etc, I will add their models without spinorama to my list, since we can easily predict their performance.



We have a few spinoramas for electrostatic speakers (here). But, as we know, electrostatic speakers don't measure well using CEA-2034 protocol. Which means they'll never have a good preference score. It's one of the speakers that won't make my list, unfortunately. But, I will say this, if you're considering electrostatic speakers, then you're going against the traditional speaker route, in which case, you can safely ignore my list since you already know what you want. People that buy electrostatic speakers already know that traditional speakers won't work for them.

Thanks, I am only questioning the list because I am about to follow the list for buying a pair of active speakers and wanted to fully understand it first!

 

[flipflop]

Thanks, I am only questioning the list because I am about to follow the list for buying a pair of active speakers and wanted to fully understand it first!

If you want a better understanding of how the score is calculated, see this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-equivalent-sinad-discussion.10818
It's especially important to note that peaks and dips are weighted the same, despite peaks being far more audible.
It should also be mentioned that the score of a speaker can be improved with EQ.

 

[Descartes]

Cool thanks you for these summaries!

 

[sweetchaos]

Changelog:

2023-11-24:
Added:
-Arendal Sound 1723 Monitor S THX (Erin)
-Arendal Sound 1723 Monitor THX (Erin)
-Ascend Acoustics Sierra Titan (vendor)
-Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Tower (vendor)
-Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1 V2 (Erin)
-Philharmonic Ceramic Mini (Erin)
-March Audio Sointuva AWG (Warkwyn)
Important Note:
-Data from March Audio Sointuva AWG came from Warkwyn (a USA company that provides Klippel NFS measurements for a fee), so this source is trusted.
-Data from Ascend Acoustics (vendor) are trusted, because of the similarity between Erin's and Ascend Acoustic's measurements, as I've shown here.
-Which is why I'm not doing the typical * (asterisk) next to these

2023-11-25:
Found the difference between March Audio speakers:
-The Sointuva WG is the original version with paper Purifi. (link to website) (the one Erin reviewed)
-The Sointuva AWG is an updated version with aluminium Purifi. (no link to website yet) (the speaker that we have spin from Warkwyn)
-Here's the difference between March Audio speakers (look at the woofer):

2023-11-26:
- Seeing how March Audio removed Sointuva WG from their website, this seems to be discontinued. So I removed this from my table.
- March Audio added the link to purchase the newly released Sointuva AWG on their website now.

Spoiler

Note: A few of these speakers were reviewed months ago by Erin, but he only just sent the data to Pierre (at spinorama.org) yesterday, so I waited *patiently* for Erin to do so, since I need to see PS, PSwSub, and LFX scores. So that's the reason why I'm updating this post this late. That Erin guy... so lazy!

 

[sweetchaos]

Looks like Kef R3 are finally gone in Canada.
This link was working a few days ago, but it's no longer:

https://ca.kef.com/products/r3

Last known price was CDN$2k/pair.

It only took about 10 months.

This is a heads up, in case you were holding out until the last minute...
I just checked and...

Still available to purchase from USA:
US$1400/pair https://us.kef.com/products/r3

EU website is still live, but no stock available:
EUR 1400/pair https://eu.kef.com/products/r3

I'm still keeping them in my recommendation, since the value is massive. And until they fully remove them from Kef website.

 

[sweetchaos]

Changelog:
2023-11-30:
- Added review link for Elac DBR-62 for Erin. Forgot to previously.

2023-12-03:
- Added Philharmonic BMR HT Tower (AH). Didn't realize that Philharmonic released a new tower (BMR HT Tower), since the previous tower was BMR Tower. Similar names caused me to miss it until now.
- Added placeholder for Philharmonic HT Center, for 3-way centers, which was launched on 2023-11-23 (link). Waiting for PS, PSwSub, and LFX to update post.
- Added 2 in-wall Kef speakers (Ci5160RLM-THX and Ci3160RLM-THX), since they were announced on 2023-11-16.
- Added 3 in-wall Revel speakers (W126Be, W226Be, W228Be), since they were announced 2023-09-07. They are based on PerformaBe series of speakers, so we can expect exceptional performance.
- Added 2 in-ceiling recommendations (Kef Ci250RRM-THX and Revel C128Be).

 

[pseudoid]

Looks like Kef R3 are finally gone in Canada.

I was just looking at the KEF R3s, inside that great/expansive MusicDirect catalog I received in November 2023.
I think the R3s were introduced sometime around 2018.
I rather like the looks (in wood veneer) of the R3s.

Is the KEF LS50 supposed to be a replacement for the R3s?
The LS50 looks like a pregnant cyclops to me and they would not be welcomed in our adobe!

 

[sweetchaos]

Is the KEF LS50 supposed to be a replacement for the R3s?

LS50 is a 2-way design, with a smaller woofer (5.25" woofer) than the 3-way of R3 non-meta/meta (which have 6.5" woofer, 5" midrange).

They're not related... different design criteria for each speaker.

 

[Danaxus]

I was just looking at the KEF R3s, inside that great/expansive MusicDirect catalog I received in November 2023.
I think the R3s were introduced sometime around 2018.
I rather like the looks (in wood veneer) of the R3s.

Is the KEF LS50 supposed to be a replacement for the R3s?
The LS50 looks like a pregnant cyclops to me and they would not be welcomed in our adobe!

The KEF R3 Meta is the replacement for the R3. The LS50 is...not exactly a step down, just has a different use case. It's better as a near-field speaker, easier to mount If you want to use it as a surround, and may be a good alternative if you have a solid sub and are on more of a budget.

 

[Tom C]

I was just looking at the KEF R3s, inside that great/expansive MusicDirect catalog I received in November 2023.
I think the R3s were introduced sometime around 2018.
I rather like the looks (in wood veneer) of the R3s.

Is the KEF LS50 supposed to be a replacement for the R3s?
The LS50 looks like a pregnant cyclops to me and they would not be welcomed in our adobe!

???

 

[sweetchaos]

I had to think about this one...

Buchardt Audio S400 MKII
Passive bookshelf speaker for US$2275/pair
Erin's written review is here and YT review is here.
PS is 5.4
PSwSub is 7.4
LFX is 43 hz

Erin's conclusion in the written review was "All in all I enjoyed this speaker."
Erin's conclusion in the YT review was "Frankly I actually like this speaker"

IMO:
This speaker is very much like Arendal Sound's speakers.
Not the best preference score, but it does a lot of things right.
Plus, we know that Buchardt Audio's design philosophy is to make great measuring speakers.,
With that in mind, and Erin's overall liking this speaker, it qualifies to be on the list.

Changelog:
2023-12-04:
- Renamed "Philharmonic BMR Mini-Monitor (v2)" (which is what Erin called the speaker on his website) to "BMR Monitor" (which is what PhilharmonicAudio.com website currently says).
- Added Buchardt Audio S400 MKII (Erin)

 

[dinklesprocket]

I recently bought KRK RP8 G4s for my living room, however I'm not that impressed. The RP5s reviewed decently so I figured the 8s would be fine, but they're just not enough of an upgrade over what I had to keep.

My plan is to return them and either get Kali LP8s or passive speakers (probably towers).

With that in mind: Is there any reason to not buy tower speakers over bookshelf speakers?

 

[sweetchaos]

With that in mind: Is there any reason to not buy tower speakers over bookshelf speakers?

Towers can look overpowering (ie. too big) in a small room.
Bookshelves usually blend-in more in smaller rooms.

But the real problem is that we don't have THAT many tower measurements.
The complexity of measuring them on Klippel NFS is off-putting to both Amir and Erin (although Erin may be measuring more tower speakers in the future... cough).

You'll likely find a lot more bookshelves (both active and passive) for the same budget as a tower, with Klippel NFS measurements and reviews.
My 1st post shows you the options, so you're free to choose, which ever path you take.

 

[Sancus]

With that in mind: Is there any reason to not buy tower speakers over bookshelf speakers?

Towers usually offer better output for the price. But bookshelves are usually cheaper for the same quality of measurements. It's pretty often a better bargain to buy a couple cheap subs, good bookshelves and a miniDSP as long as you don't mind learning how to use those things.

Sometimes there are bookshelves that offer capabilities not found in almost all towers, like the D&D 8C.

And space constraints. For example in HT, towers are less useful since your center speaker plays harder than any other channel so unless you have a truly massive one, or you just want them for stereo, L/R towers are a bit pointless. The system will be bottlenecked by the center anyway.

It's honestly better to just compare specific products within your budget than to get hung up on categories.

 

[Danaxus]

I recently bought KRK RP8 G4s for my living room, however I'm not that impressed. The RP5s reviewed decently so I figured the 8s would be fine, but they're just not enough of an upgrade over what I had to keep.

My plan is to return them and either get Kali LP8s or passive speakers (probably towers).

With that in mind: Is there any reason to not buy tower speakers over bookshelf speakers?

People may disagree with me here, but the main benefit of bookshelves is a balance between budget, subwoofer, and placement.
For the price of a tower, you can afford to buy bookshelves and a sub - and there are pros and cons to this.

Pros of Bookshelves + sub:

• subs with their own amps will take a lot of heat off your speaker amp
• Flexibility in sub placement, to better deal with room modes
• Can set your crossover to whatever you want
• Easily transported
• Will be amazing as secondary speakers (i.e. heights or rears), if you decide to buy towers in the future (assuming you want a surround sound system)

Pros of Towers:

• Better integration of woofers, especially if they're active with their own DSP (like the KEF LS60).
• Instead of 1 sub, you have 2 full(ish), range towers
• Much better future-proofing as you can buy a sub or two later for a truly impressive stereo setup
  • Much more flexibility with sub crossover. Since towers go much lower, you can set a lower crossover that simply isn't possible with bookshelves

 

[radix]

People may disagree with me here, but the main benefit of bookshelves is a balance between budget, subwoofer, and placement.
For the price of a tower, you can afford to buy bookshelves and a sub - and there are pros and cons to this.

Pros of Bookshelves + sub:

• subs with their own amps will take a lot of heat off your speaker amp
• Flexibility in sub placement, to better deal with room modes
• Can set your crossover to whatever you want
• Easily transported
• Will be amazing as secondary speakers (i.e. heights or rears), if you decide to buy towers in the future (assuming you want a surround sound system)

Pros of Towers:

• Better integration of woofers, especially if they're active with their own DSP (like the KEF LS60).
• Instead of 1 sub, you have 2 full(ish), range towers
• Much better future-proofing as you can buy a sub or two later for a truly impressive stereo setup
  • Much more flexibility with sub crossover. Since towers go much lower, you can set a lower crossover that simply isn't possible with bookshelves

I almost fully agree! But I think it is vey expensive to get full range towers. If you're ok with ~30-35 Hz @ -3 or -6, then yeah, there's ones you can find. But if you want a solid 20 Hz @ -3, it is expensive. And generally one wants the sub placed somewhere different than the speaker due to room modes vs mid and high which get directional. And even with speakers that get that low, I think a 12" - 15" sub still adds more.

To me, the biggest difference is power handling and the amount of air you move. A tower will usually be able to handle higher power, so if you have a large room and big amp, you might be looking at a tower. I find Erin's measurements of dynamic range (compression test) very helpful in this regard. You can also get some idea from the THD vs frequency @ SPL graph, but the dynamic range graph has all the powers in the same graph so it's easier to compare.

 

[dinklesprocket]

People may disagree with me here, but the main benefit of bookshelves is a balance between budget, subwoofer, and placement.

Towers usually offer better output for the price. But bookshelves are usually cheaper for the same quality of measurements. It's pretty often a better bargain to buy a couple cheap subs, good bookshelves and a miniDSP as long as you don't mind learning how to use those things.

Towers can look overpowering (ie. too big) in a small room.
Bookshelves usually blend-in more in smaller rooms.

Replying to all 3 because you guys said similar stuff: My receiver is a Denon X3600H, which has Audyssey XT32 (not sure if it counts as DSP) and an SVS PB-2000. I used to have a MiniDSP 2x4 HD, then I fried it and their support was useless lol. Forgot to add: I'm in apartment, so I rarely have my sub on, and don't even necessarily want sub 50Hz.

I realized while writing my reply that I'm just trying to justify tower speakers over bookshelves. I *hate* speaker stands. I'm always worried they're gonna tip over. I also hate the idea of spending $100-200 on good stands when I could use that money instead on better speakers.

 

[radix]

Replying to all 3 because you guys said similar stuff: My receiver is a Denon X3600H, which has Audyssey XT32 (not sure if it counts as DSP) and an SVS PB-2000. I used to have a MiniDSP 2x4 HD, then I fried it and their support was useless lol. Forgot to add: I'm in apartment, so I rarely have my sub on, and don't even necessarily want sub 50Hz.

I realized while writing my reply that I'm just trying to justify tower speakers over bookshelves. I *hate* speaker stands. I'm always worried they're gonna tip over. I also hate the idea of spending $100-200 on good stands when I could use that money instead on better speakers.

I made some wall mounts for the KEF 3 out of some 1" (really 3/4") alder plus heavy duty brackets mounted over studs. The R3 have sealed nuts in the bottom (I don't remeber the size), so I was able securely attach them to the shelf. For smaller speakers one can buy pre-made speaker mounts. One thing I like about the Arendal line is they have wall mounts for most of their speakers.

 

[Danaxus]

I realized while writing my reply that I'm just trying to justify tower speakers over bookshelves. I *hate* speaker stands. I'm always worried they're gonna tip over. I also hate the idea of spending $100-200 on good stands when I could use that money instead on better speakers.

Sounds like you know what’s best for you then - get some towers! The aesthetics of your room are important! You won’t regret it from an acoustics perspective and they’ll bring you joy to look at.