PAS 2002PCA PA amplifier vs MC2 S800

[maty]

If you already enjoy good sound I would wait for it to be available again. If you are not convinced, return it and you will have lost little money.

 

[Coriolis62]

Well, it has almost everything except the appearance and some legs (designed to be rack mounted). Easy to repair or modify / improve. BIG transformer and isolated from the rest.

It works OK with AVR like Denon X4700 and others preamps: 1.07 V
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x4700-avr-review-updated.14493/

When available again (about three weeks), purchase the necessary cabling from Thomann. If it does not convince it is returned.

• https://www.thomann.de/es/pas_2002pca.htm
• https://www.thomann.de/ie/pas_2002pca.htm

It is assumed that in the German store it will be cheaper since the VAT reduction from 19% to 16% until the end of the year is already effective (advantages of having a large budget surplus) but... now better at Spanish store.

• https://www.thomann.de/de/pas_2002pca.htm

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OLD version

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Hi Maty, what are the improvements you suggest (or did) to the PAS 2002PCA ? Thanks

 

[il Carletto]

Short answer: forget about the MC2 S800 if you do not need so watts at home?

Yeah, you are right.
I'm using a MC2 S1400 instead S800 with my PMC IB1s

My previous amps: Krell, Sanders, VTL, Spectral, Nord Acoustics Nc500...

 

[giordy]

I'm using a MC2 S1400 instead S800 with my PMC IB1s

...

oh ! my God .....

 

[traver02]

I'm using MC2 HS800 too
the new and improved version.
the MC2 web site is currently updating the HS versions
Fan are the Artic. not very silent, at least in the piano or pianissimo passages they can be heard even at two meters of distance
I know that the Noctua are very silent, but i have been told that apart for the warranty void, it is not exactly a simple task to replace the fans
apart the small noise the 800 is really a great machine

 

[il Carletto]

Mc2 suggested me to replace the Sunon Maglev stock fans (41 dBA) of my S1400 with the Arctic F8 (~22 dBA), but I easily replaced them with four Noctua Redux (17 dBA, according datasheet). Same Air Flow, of course.

 

[traver02]

ciao. sei italiano?

thanks for the infos
so you confirm that the replacement is easy. i guess the chassis of S800 and S1400 should be similar.

 

[il Carletto]

ciao. sei italiano?

Si, esatto

so you confirm that the replacement is easy. i guess the chassis of S800 and S1400 should be similar.

Yes, it's not difficult. The inner fans are very easy to replace. The outer two need a little bit more attention.

 

[H-713]

Are they even still making the S series? Their website doesn't list it currently. If nobody here knows what the story is with that I may reach out to MC2 for clarification.

The S series should perform quite similarly to the old MC series, which has really good performance and is IMO quite underrated. If it says anything, MC2 makes all of the amplifiers used in Quested's high-end active monitors as well as all the amplifiers used in their installations.

If people want I'd be happy to measure my MC650 and post the results. From what I remember the last time I serviced one, THD+N at 1 kHz was something in the .004% range. That is into a 4-ohm load. The characteristics of the S800 should be very similar- MC2 pretty much uses the same topology for all their Class AB amps as far as I know. It's a little unconventional, but there are a few schematics floating around.

Most MC2 amps aren't too bad to service, and MC2 is typically very helpful. That said, they're so reliable they almost never need service. The S800 and S1400 will be the same chassis. There's a good chance the use the same PCB, just with lower rail voltages on the S800 and fewer output devices. I've never had my hands on an S series, but this is just a (very educated) guess based on other amplifier manufacturers and my past experience with MC2 equipment.

FWIW, most amplifiers from within a series will behave about the same, just with different power levels. For example, the main differences between a CA6 and CA9 are the number of output devices and the rail voltages. Furthermore, companies tend to find a topology they like and stick with it- exceptions made for companies that make both Class AB and Class D amps. That's why the schematics for a Crest 6001 and a CA6 are almost the same, and why an MC2 MC450 output module uses the same PCB as an MC650 output module- they just didn't populate all the output devices.

These amps are designed for studio monitoring. They're a little bigger than you really need in a home environment, but that extra power doesn't hurt.

 

[halvis]

As an MC650 owner, I would be glad to see some test results.

 

[Bushmeister]

I too run MC2 amps (T500, T1000, T1000) into a three way active DIY speaker, so would be very grateful for these measurements. In my personal experience they are extremely good sounding amps, and I have had for them for many years without issues (all fans switched out to noctua silent ones).

 

[H-713]

The schematics for some of the T-series amps are floating around (whether MC2 likes it or not). IMO, a very clever way to get the cost down without sacrificing much performance.

I'll post some measurements when I have a chance. MC650s, when properly aligned, will do 0.005% THD at 3/4 power into a 4-ohm load, at least at 1 kHz. I can't remember what the 10 kHz THD looks like. Low frequency distortion is lower than at 1 kHz (unsurprising).

 

[mustang_flht]

Hi,

I am French and I am starting here, thank you for welcoming me to your home.

I ordered this Pas Audio 2002PCA amp, it is under construction and the wait is long, hope I will not be disappointed. it uses very good Mosfet K1058 & J162 transistors.

note: maty, I saw that you tried to contact the manufacturer, but you mistakenly contacted the former importer in Austria Brain Audio, with no response. The manufacturer is in Germany in Schwarzach and I can give you their contact details, if you want.

 

[mustang_flht]

Here are pictures of a Pas Audio 2002PCA from an owner of a last version, the main boards are reversed and we see the transistors of one of the two channels

Some photos found on the net

 

[H-713]

Here are pictures of a Pas Audio 2002PCA from an owner of a last version, the main boards are reversed and we see the transistors of one of the two channels

Some photos found on the net

So they're lateral FET amps. Interesting. Makes the thermal tracking pretty easy.

 

[mustang_flht]

Hi,
I finally received this PAS Audio 2002PCA, I ordered it at the end of April and it was very long, because we had to wait for the craftsman to weld and assemble this beautiful amp by hand, so about 10 weeks of waiting . I think he had difficulties getting electronic components, moreover the amplifier is currently unavailable for three months at Thomman.

For the moment I am discovering the amp, but already I can say that it works very well. It is wonderfully quiet, in the speakers there is no hissing or snoring. The toroidal transformer makes almost no noise, even with the ear glued to the facade the typical sound of toric is very very very low, barely audible. For the sound I wait a bit, but already the bass is formidable and the power impressive. In short, I am happy.

 

[H-713]

Hi,
I finally received this PAS Audio 2002PCA, I ordered it at the end of April and it was very long, because we had to wait for the craftsman to weld and assemble this beautiful amp by hand, so about 10 weeks of waiting . I think he had difficulties getting electronic components, moreover the amplifier is currently unavailable for three months at Thomman.

For the moment I am discovering the amp, but already I can say that it works very well. It is wonderfully quiet, in the speakers there is no hissing or snoring. The toroidal transformer makes almost no noise, even with the ear glued to the facade the typical sound of toric is very very very low, barely audible. For the sound I wait a bit, but already the bass is formidable and the power impressive. In short, I am happy.

Lateral MOSFETs, from an engineering perspective, are ideal for this application. It solves the thermal-tracking issue, they're easy to drive (so you don't need to deal with an EF triple) and they don't suffer from secondary breakdown like BJTs and vertical MOSFETs. You can generally get away with a much less sophisticated protection circuit for laterals.

Unfortunately, lateral MOSFETs have become very uncommon- the only company that I'm aware of that still fabricates them is Exicon, and they're pretty expensive- something like $15 - $20 each here in the US, compared to about $3 - $4 for most of the power BJTs.

As for the toroidal transformer, how quiet they are seems to be more dependent on the mains than on the transformer itself. Pretty much all of them start humming when there's a DC offset on the mains.

 

[mustang_flht]

Thank you H-713 for your reply.

I read on the net that the mosfets used by PAS audio were from Infineon, a high quality German manufacturer. but I do not know if those which are still used today by PAS audio, because the manufacture of a 2002 PCA began about twenty years ago, it is a long artisanal production guarantee of reliability and quality.

This amp is top rated on Thomann = first of the amps with or without fan, the second without fans and the famous Benchmark ABH2, customer satisfaction is incredible = five stars out of over 57 reviews.

I have another Perspective A1 amp with also a toroidal transformer, and when it is connected to the same power line the transformer vibrates making noise in the chassis. Perhaps the PAS audio is equipped with an electronic system to suppress the DC offset on the mains: is it possible ? I know Bryston uses an electronic system on their amps to make toroidal transformers quiet.

* : Infineon Technologies AG is a German semiconductor manufacturer founded in 1999, when the semiconductor activities of the former parent company Siemens AG were split. Infineon has approximately 46,665 employees and is one of the ten largest semiconductor manufacturers in the world. It is the market leader in automotive and power semiconductors. (Wiki source)

 

[H-713]

Thank you H-713 for your reply.

I read on the net that the mosfets used by PAS audio were from Infineon, a high quality German manufacturer. but I do not know if those which are still used today by PAS audio, because the manufacture of a 2002 PCA began about twenty years ago, it is a long artisanal production guarantee of reliability and quality.

This amp is top rated on Thomann = first of the amps with or without fan, the second without fans and the famous Benchmark ABH2, customer satisfaction is incredible = five stars out of over 57 reviews.

I have another Perspective A1 amp with also a toroidal transformer, and when it is connected to the same power line the transformer vibrates making noise in the chassis. Perhaps the PAS audio is equipped with an electronic system to suppress the DC offset on the mains: is it possible ? I know Bryston uses an electronic system on their amps to make toroidal transformers quiet.

* : Infineon Technologies AG is a German semiconductor manufacturer founded in 1999, when the semiconductor activities of the former parent company Siemens AG were split. Infineon has approximately 46,665 employees and is one of the ten largest semiconductor manufacturers in the world. It is the market leader in automotive and power semiconductors. (Wiki source)

The FETs in the amp pictured above aren't Infineon, unless hell has frozen over and a big name fab is making lateral MOSFETs again. "K1058" refers to a 2SK1058, which is one of the old Hitachi / Renesas lateral MOSFETs. The complement is the 2SJ162. My guess is that picture is of an older amp- the new lateral MOSFETs are made by Exicon and have a different part number (though they're electrically equivalent).

It is possible and relatively easy to suppress DC on the mains electronically.

 

[mustang_flht]

The photo of the amp is recent, 2019 or 2020 from memory, it is the latest models, to be sure I would have to open mine which was made in June 2021. It is possible that NOT audio uses old ones stock NOS of these mosfets.

Yes : Renasas (Hitachi) still manufactures these Mosfets 2SK1058 / 2SJ162, in any case we still find them referenced on their site, but with warnings "not recommended for new designs", maybe end of stock

https://www.renesas.com/us/en/produ...evices/power-mosfets/2sk1058-n-channel-mosfet