Parts Express Solstice Kit

[MT_bassbone]

Does anyone have experience with this kit? I am trying to avoid subwoofers but want to get as much of the range as possible. Running a Topping PA7+ for amplification.

 

[MT_bassbone]

Forgot to mention this would be for a two channel setup in a small/medium size room that unfortunately is
not ideal for hifi listening. LOL

 

[Grotti]

This kit is advertised as a two-way design. If the two midwoofers run in parallel mode, it will lead to problems in the midrange due to interference between the two drivers. To avoid that, a lot of speakers with two midwoofers are build as 2.5 way speakers. I wouldn't build this one without having had the possibility to listen to it (ideally in my own room). Just my 2 cents, of course.

 

[a4eaudio]

This kit is advertised as a two-way design. If the two midwoofers run in parallel mode, it will lead to problems in the midrange due to interference between the two drivers. To avoid that, a lot of speakers with two midwoofers are build as 2.5 way speakers. I wouldn't build this one without having had the possibility to listen to it (ideally in my own room). Just my 2 cents, of course.

Jeff Bagby (RIP) designed the Solstice in 2014 so there is a LOT of information available about it.
He started with the assumption it would be a 2.5 way but a two-way simply worked better. Source: Probably from comments somewhere on Parts Express Tech Talk (PETT) from close to a decade ago.

 

[mhardy6647]

Source: Probably from comments somewhere on Parts Express Tech Talk (PETT) from close to a decade ago.

Shout-out for @a4eaudio's honesty!

(of course, now I feel compelled to go looking for the reference... )

 

[Grotti]

Jeff Bagby (RIP) designed the Solstice in 2014 so there is a LOT of information available about it.
He started with the assumption it would be a 2.5 way but a two-way simply worked better. Source: Probably from comments somewhere on Parts Express Tech Talk (PETT) from close to a decade ago.

Worked better why? Simply anecdotal or was this backed up by measurements? I am not aware of MMT-configurations working flawlessly as a pure two way design. But i am open for any evidence: would make the design a lot easier

 

[a4eaudio]

Shout-out for @a4eaudio's honesty!

(of course, now I feel compelled to go looking for the reference... )

January 2017, so not quite a decade...

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1312106-2-5-topology?p=1312741#post1312741

 

[Grotti]

January 2017, so not quite a decade...

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1312106-2-5-topology?p=1312741#post1312741

OK. No evidence there....in fact Mr. Bigsby stated, that there would be more comb filtering in a two way design, which he didn't seem to be worried about. As Klipsch is, since all their MMT floor standing speakers are pure 2 ways.....But the track record of Mr. Bigsby makes me want to see measurements: anyone willing to send the finished speaker to Amir?

 

[mhardy6647]

Maybe not altogether relevant, but the issue of the side-by-side midwoofers of the venerable Polk Monitor Series Model 10 ("Monitor 10") and comb filtering has gotten lots of airplay (ahem, so to speak) over the years. My own "ears-only" assessment of the Model 10 is that there's a heaviness (relatively small but hard-to-overlook midbass hump) to their sound -- compared to their smaller, cheaper sibling, the 7 -- that is more objectionable than the MR response anomalies.

 

[a4eaudio]

OK. No evidence there....in fact Mr. Bigsby stated, that there would be more comb filtering in a two way design, which he didn't seem to be worried about. As Klipsch is, since all their MMT floor standing speakers are pure 2 ways.....But the track record of Mr. Bigsby makes me want to see measurements: anyone willing to send the finished speaker to Amir?

Sorry, I missed your post after MHardy's. I was just recalling that Jeff had commented that he started with the premise of a 2.5 way but found a simple TMM two-way worked better.

Two reasons I can see contributing to this, one of which Jeff addressed - The Solstice crosses over at a lower frequency than a lot of 2-ways - Jeff mentions that if it was crossed 800-1000Hz higher than a 2.5 way would have been needed. The baffle step loss on very skinny speakers occurs at higher frequencies making a 2.5 way not very effective.

 

[Grotti]

Sorry, I missed your post after MHardy's. I was just recalling that Jeff had commented that he started with the premise of a 2.5 way but found a simple TMM two-way worked better.

Two reasons I can see contributing to this, one of which Jeff addressed - The Solstice crosses over at a lower frequency than a lot of 2-ways - Jeff mentions that if it was crossed 800-1000Hz higher than a 2.5 way would have been needed. The baffle step loss on very skinny speakers occurs at higher frequencies making a 2.5 way not very effective.

I noticed that, but this statement doesn't refer to the problem, that two speakers are covering the midrange side by side not necessarily having the same distance to the listener: this almost inevitably leads to dips and highs in the frequency response (not to mention the vertical response being messed up) on axis and in room. There may be solutions to that but without hard evidence I remain sceptical.

 

[alex-z]

Disclaimer, I don't actually think the Solstice sound bad, just that there are better ways to spend $1500/pair.

Making a 2 way with dual 6" woofers is just not a good idea. Even with a 1700Hz crossover the vertical time alignment will be poor, leading to substantial changes in timbre when moving your head. You will also get less focused imaging, as the floor/ceiling reflections arrive at different times.

Even a single 6" woofer with a 1" tweeter is flawed by modern standards. Without a tweeter waveguide the horizontal directivity difference at the crossover will be prominent.

The Chevalier 3 way kit is only $1200/pair even with the flat-pack sealed cabinet, upgraded woofer inductor, and binding posts.

Speaker Components & DIY Audio Parts | Madisound

Morel + SB Acoustics Chevalier 3-Way Speaker Kit - PairDesigned by Curt Campbell ~ Speaker Design WorksThe Chevalier is a modern take on a traditional 8 ohm 3-way. The high & midrange frequencies are covered by the Morel TM4055-8 Soft Dome 1" Tweeter + 2" Midrange combination. The level of...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[pianosound]

Disclaimer, I don't actually think the Solstice sound bad, just that there are better ways to spend $1500/pair.

Making a 2 way with dual 6" woofers is just not a good idea. Even with a 1700Hz crossover the vertical time alignment will be poor, leading to substantial changes in timbre when moving your head. You will also get less focused imaging, as the floor/ceiling reflections arrive at different times.

Even a single 6" woofer with a 1" tweeter is flawed by modern standards. Without a tweeter waveguide the horizontal directivity difference at the crossover will be prominent.

The Chevalier 3 way kit is only $1200/pair even with the flat-pack sealed cabinet, upgraded woofer inductor, and binding posts.

Speaker Components & DIY Audio Parts | Madisound

Morel + SB Acoustics Chevalier 3-Way Speaker Kit - PairDesigned by Curt Campbell ~ Speaker Design WorksThe Chevalier is a modern take on a traditional 8 ohm 3-way. The high & midrange frequencies are covered by the Morel TM4055-8 Soft Dome 1" Tweeter + 2" Midrange combination. The level of...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Have you auditioned the solstice speakers, or are you making assumptions here? Most of the mids of the Chevalier are provided by the woofer. So I'm not sure I'm understanding your statement about timber alignment with head movement. The on axis will be about the same on the solstice and the Chevalier. The solstice has mid to low grade crossover components. However, if you upgrade to the same quality components as the Chevalier the imaging, sound stage and separation will be the same. I know because I have heard both speakers. I have now the Solstice with Mundorf oil with USCoil inductors in the tweeter crossover, and Sonicap caps on the woofer side. The sound is stunning. What I noticed with the Mundorf for the tweeter circuit is how it came alive to another level. Also what I found interesting is that I do not have to sit right in front of the center axis to enjoy the 3d effect, but I can be off as much as 5 feet on either side of the centerline and the effect remains the same. I did treat the cabinet with additional car heat sound deadening material inside the cabinets. As a result the bass goes lower that 40 hz. I know because I had to adjust the woofer to engage below that value. Its base is punchy and clean. Well worth the project and the sound quality. I understand what you are saying, but not necessarily true. The designer did a damn good job with this one. If anything parts express did not do very well in selecting its cheap crossover components.