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Parks Audio Waxwing measurements

You are probably right that the distortion performance is "good enough" for the medium. In absolute terms, and compared to contemporary ADC's, however, it is not very "sexy" from an engineering standpoint.

In the end this device might be one of the compromises one has to accept, as the huge functionality may outweigh the mediocre technical spec.

It does the job well. Making records sound almost as good as CDs and making slightly damaged records listenable.

It makes poor quality records sound good. Good quality records sound great. Great quality records sound awesome. I recommend the Waxwing over every other component I know about for increasing audio quality of records.
 
Noted.

Might "jump over my shadow" and try it one day.
 
It does the job well. Making records sound almost as good as CDs and making slightly damaged records listenable.

It makes poor quality records sound good. Good quality records sound great. Great quality records sound awesome. I recommend the Waxwing over every other component I know about for increasing audio quality of records.

Have you ever used a Marantz SX-72? I can tell you it's awesome for transients. It's ruler flat, overload isn't an issue and it's a full size component.

Real time, line level (so you don't need to use a crap phono stage), inbuilt A/D and D/A (early Philips Bitstream but good), and digital outputs. Onboard scratch/noise suppression in DSP with variable control.
 
Have you ever used a Marantz SX-72? I can tell you it's awesome for transients. It's ruler flat, overload isn't an issue and it's a full size component.

Real time, line level (so you don't need to use a crap phono stage), inbuilt A/D and D/A (early Philips Bitstream but good), and digital outputs. Onboard scratch/noise suppression in DSP with variable control.
From a US Audiomart Ad below for a non-working SX-72. They were asking $120. I just don't see the value in an early 1990's product that still requires adding a phono preamp and all it does is "scratch removal". The Waxwing is current manufacture and has awesome support. The function set is beyond belief and if I were to lose it to some mishap - I would purchase another one.


"Marantz SX-72 Scratch Noise Suppression processor in non-working condition as selector switches do not work. Cosmetically almost mint condition with box and instruction manual. The only flaw is some light dots on top front panel from what I assume was an overspray of some kind and I have not tried to clean it. This item is used to reduce normal pops and clicks on vinyl LP records. This is a vintage unit sold by Marantz Europe and manufactured in Japan. Rare and somewhat uncommon and was marketed in early 1990s. Utilizes a Philips 20-bit A-D-A conversion and DSP processor. Requires a phono preamp between a turntable and this unit."
 
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I just don't see the value in an early 1990's product that still requires adding a phono preamp and all it does is "scratch removal". The Waxwing is current manufacture and has awesome support. The function set is beyond belief and if I were to lose it to some mishap - I would purchase another one.

Whatever works for you is what is best. I'm not doubting the 'support' or 'function set'- I'm just disappointed with the front end. I played with a Puffin and it was something I'd never touch again. It was noisy, sounded bad and was an absolute bear to use.

For me, vinyl is a distant 2nd, third or fourth media. I did my time with it back in the day. The Marantz SX-72 was and is a great product. If you get a chance, play with one instead of deriding its capabilities without experiencing or testing one. They were a rare product and introduced too late. Unique, actually, as it just sits in a tape loop with high performance A/D- DSP - D/A, something nobody else had achieved at the time or after AFAIK.
 
Whatever works for you is what is best. I'm not doubting the 'support' or 'function set'- I'm just disappointed with the front end. I played with a Puffin and it was something I'd never touch again. It was noisy, sounded bad and was an absolute bear to use.

For me, vinyl is a distant 2nd, third or fourth media. I did my time with it back in the day. The Marantz SX-72 was and is a great product. If you get a chance, play with one instead of deriding its capabilities without experiencing or testing one. They were a rare product and introduced too late. Unique, actually, as it just sits in a tape loop with high performance A/D- DSP - D/A, something nobody else had achieved at the time or after AFAIK.

A modern version with full DSP between pre-amp out and amp in with phone app control would be a great product.
 
Whatever works for you is what is best. I'm not doubting the 'support' or 'function set'- I'm just disappointed with the front end. I played with a Puffin and it was something I'd never touch again. It was noisy, sounded bad and was an absolute bear to use.

For me, vinyl is a distant 2nd, third or fourth media. I did my time with it back in the day. The Marantz SX-72 was and is a great product. If you get a chance, play with one instead of deriding its capabilities without experiencing or testing one. They were a rare product and introduced too late. Unique, actually, as it just sits in a tape loop with high performance A/D- DSP - D/A, something nobody else had achieved at the time or after AFAIK.

Strange that the Puffin you played with was noisy. Especially if the circuits are similar. Parks got me interested with the Waxwing because of the app type control. I can see how the Puffin could be challenging without remote control.

When you think about it, whether it is an official review by Amirm or an end user making commentary, sample sets of one are really not all that meaningful. They might be if quality control and reliability are good, but you always have a chance of the "one off" for good or bad.
 
Agreed. It would be interesting to know the level of those measurements. I've never measured a cart that good! Maybe almost 50dB with a typical test record tone. I'll have to try again now I have a CA TRS-1007 test record.
The CA-TRS-007 is 3.54 cm/s peak L or R. (5 cm/s for the L+R mono.)
 
Have you ever used a Marantz SX-72? I can tell you it's awesome for transients. It's ruler flat, overload isn't an issue and it's a full size component.

Real time, line level (so you don't need to use a crap phono stage), inbuilt A/D and D/A (early Philips Bitstream but good), and digital outputs. Onboard scratch/noise suppression in DSP with variable control.

I had never heard of the Marantz unit. I heard about the Waxwing from posts here. It sounded like it would help with the older records I inherited and it does. I am satisfied with the sound quality it gives me and do not feel a need to improve it any further.
 
I am satisfied with the sound quality it gives me and do not feel a need to improve it any further.

That is the best place to be. Satisfaction. :)

I came to that place a long time ago with digital, amplification, preamplification and turntables. But not cartridges, the vinyl itself and loudspeakers. So I pretty much gave up on vinyl as a viable source and bought way too many speakers. LOL.
 
That is the best place to be. Satisfaction. :)

I came to that place a long time ago with digital, amplification, preamplification and turntables. But not cartridges, the vinyl itself and loudspeakers. So I pretty much gave up on vinyl as a viable source and bought way too many speakers. LOL.

The only problem with extra speakers is the room they take up. I just got a pair of new Klipsch Heresy IVs. I know some think they aren't audiophile enough, but I like the "Klipsch sound". Had the problem of what to do with my previous floorstanding speakers. Moved them to be the rear atmos left / right speakers. Overkill, but better than sticking them in a closet.
 
Noticable distorion?

Yes.

That AP plot you are showing is at only 5mV input and THD is already poking its head into the -80s (dB).

A competent MM phono stage has no distortion spikes above the noise floor.

Here's a 40 year old Denon preamplifier MM stage (1.41kHz@~5mV):
1724748546611.png
 
I just got a pair of new Klipsch Heresy IVs. I know some think they aren't audiophile enough, but I like the "Klipsch sound".

I really would like to give a pair of Heresy's a go/listen sometime. Last time I hear a pair, it was, no, I don't want to admit how old I am. There is a dealer not to far from me who is a Klipsch stockist.
 
I really would like to give a pair of Heresy's a go/listen sometime. Last time I hear a pair, it was, no, I don't want to admit how old I am. There is a dealer not to far from me who is a Klipsch stockist.

They were pretty good sitting on the floor with their tilted base, but I put them up on stands and they really opened up. People talk about the live music effect and it is true. Have them slightly toed in. Great wide soundstage and separation and the drums are in the room with me. Bass hits you in the chest just right and they can easily get way too loud.
 
Yes.

That AP plot you are showing is at only 5mV input and THD is already poking its head into the -80s (dB).

A competent MM phono stage has no distortion spikes above the noise floor.

Here's a 40 year old Denon preamplifier MM stage (1.41kHz@~5mV):
View attachment 388737

John - Balle’s plot was at 40 db gain and yours is at just under 34 db - voltage gain of 50, if I am reading it correctly. Not really apples to apples as the plot will move upwards at 40 db - voltage gain of 100. Move the baseline up by 6 db on the Denon and the picture becomes closer. The built in phono stages of these integrated amps always seems to run a bit on the low side for some reason - my Luxman’s internal phone is 36 db MM and 56 db MC.
 
John - Balle’s plot was at 40 db gain and yours is at just under 34 db - voltage gain of 50, if I am reading it correctly. Not really apples to apples as the plot will move upwards at 40 db - voltage gain of 100. Move the baseline up by 6 db on the Denon and the picture becomes closer. The built in phono stages of these integrated amps always seems to run a bit on the low side for some reason - my Luxman’s internal phone is 36 db MM and 56 db MC.

Not an integrated amplifier. It's a proper standalone MM/MC complete preamplifier. That's a loop out (tape out) from 4.95mV in at ~34dB gain. You can output anything you want out the line outputs up to 20V.

Gain is irrelevant in this case. We are looking at THD here. The THD in the Waxwing is poor no matter how you look at it.

I could pull out a dozen integrated amplifiers and standalone preamplifiers from the early 1970s onwards to the 1990s with better RIAA stages than this and with way lower inherent THD.
 
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Not an integrated amplifier. It's a proper standalone MM/MC complete preamplifier. That's a loop out (tape out) from 4.95mV in at ~34dB gain. You can output anything you want out the line outputs up to 20V.

Gain is irrelevant in this case. We are looking at THD here. The THD in the Waxwing is poor no matter how you look at it.

I could pull out a dozen integrated amplifiers and standalone preamplifiers from the early 1970s onwards to the 1990s with better RIAA stages than this and with way lower inherent THD.

Please correct me if I have this wrong, but the noise floor should move up with higher gain? I am saying that the plot presented looks better because of the lower gain. It would be interesting to see the MC gain plot of the same phono pre-amp to see how the noise floor changes.
 
Yes.

That AP plot you are showing is at only 5mV input and THD is already poking its head into the -80s (dB).

A competent MM phono stage has no distortion spikes above the noise floor.

Here's a 40 year old Denon preamplifier MM stage (1.41kHz@~5mV):
View attachment 388737
Very nice. Always good to see good gear! I cannot compete with that

Here is my system at my normal maximum listening level with Puffin in the chain but not with vinyl signal, Puffin optical out to preamp. REW to Puffin to preamp to REW. Not exacty AP and some FFT gain is at play here .. but anyway not bad and certainly not any audible concern.
1724772246048.png


-3db level I will hav to leav the room at this level...
1724772429717.png
 
A modern version with full DSP between pre-amp out and amp in with phone app control would be a great product.
Kinda like going pre-out while utilizing the internal phono stage, to Waxwing running without RIAA for click detection, to MiniDSP running Dirac Live, back to main-in? It's 2 (small) boxes, but does the same thing.
 
Kinda like going pre-out while utilizing the internal phono stage, to Waxwing running without RIAA for click detection, to MiniDSP running Dirac Live, back to main-in? It's 2 (small) boxes, but does the same thing.

I was actually thinking along the lines of something like a minidsp but controlled by phone with no computer involvement. Not so much related to phono, more of a room correction thing without involving a computer. The Waxwing has the pop and click thing covered, but if you had that function it could be handy for other preamps.
 
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