Parks Audio Waxwing measurements

[dougi]

Antcollinet,

You and I had a exchange about the Waxwing and BT in another thread, I have a few question

1 - no computer, can the waxwing be powered by a phone charger (usb) ?

2 - can it be used as a basic phono preamp, analog in and out ? Would anything be gained by coming out digital into my Benchmark DAC or too many changes

3 - once set up can the BT control be need constantly, if setting are already set?

Jack

1. Yes via charger, that is how I tested it.
2. Yes, but it will still go into the digital domain and back
3. No, it remembers your last settings. Only need bt to change them

 

[al2002]

Overload is poor.

 

[pogo]

Keep it analog.

Tnx for the measurements with a linear power supply.
This indirectly answers my question in post #6.

 

[dougi]

Overload is poor.

Conventionally, yes. But, you can just reduce the gain to get whatever headroom you want. For analog out, this might be annoying, but for digital out it's very handy. I tweak the gain on the fly to keep 6dB digital headroom or so.

 

[antcollinet]

Antcollinet,

You and I had a exchange about the Waxwing and BT in another thread, I have a few question

1 - no computer, can the waxwing be powered by a phone charger (usb) ?

2 - can it be used as a basic phono preamp, analog in and out ? Would anything be gained by coming out digital into my Benchmark DAC or too many changes

3 - once set up can the BT control be need constantly, if setting are already set?

Jack

1 - Yes, it is supplied with a USB power supply. No computer needed.

2 - Yes - analogue in and out. BUT it still goes through A/D and D/A conversion - all the processing, including RIIA is done digitally (24bit/96kHz resolution). This means there is no disadvantage to going digital to your benchmark, plus you get the full isolation of optical, which is a great noise killer. I have a 10ft optical cable to my MiniDSP Flex which works fine. (My Turntable is on the opposite side of the room)

3 - Once settings are set as you want, you can completely ignore the bluetooth connection if you wish - it behaves just as any other Phono-pre. There are some information features (Record grading, Check for clipping, Rotational speed measurement, perhaps one or two others) that need to phone display - but you obviously don't need to use those.

For my setup I also have a ground wire from an electrical socket to the waxwing to minimise noise. The need for this may be setup/turntable specific.

 

[restorer-john]

With a mm cart as a source with no signal (VM95ml) the noise is:

Noise does improve if you filter out the HF with the app (sorry about the different frequency scale:

So explain these plots, please. You have a cartridge connected to the phono stage exactly how? It looks like it isn't in a shielded metal box or it's at the end of some unterminated, unshielded cable, and what's the 4k and 20k peaks all about?

And if you're using an MM cartridge as a typical load for noise testing, remove the stylus as it will otherwise pickup noise/vibration/movement etc.

 

[restorer-john]

Presumably you are outputting 5mV from the RME. Do you know the THD/Noise content of the signal out of the RME when outputting at that level?

Good point.

THD in modern D/As is amazing at low levels, but the noise becomes a greater contributor as it's constant. Analyzers get around that and maintain their THD+N reasonably constant by keeping the level to the digital generator D/A high and attenuating the output down to low levels. That takes the noise down too.

At 5mV output into a phono stage, the D/As noise in an un-attenuated converter will not dominate, but it will throw the overall level out significantly.

 

[dougi]

Good point.

THD in modern D/As is amazing at low levels, but the noise becomes a greater contributor as it's constant. Analyzers get around that and maintain their THD+N reasonably constant by keeping the level to the digital generator D/A high and attenuating the output down to low levels. That takes the noise down too.

At 5mV output into a phono stage, the D/As noise in an un-attenuated converter will not dominate, but it will throw the overall level out significantly.

The point of the the plots was for thd only, not the noise. But I could repeat with some rca attenuators to reduce the source noise.

 

[mash]

Like SteveC, I have the Puffin and have been perfectly happy with it. It fits well within my setup (where I essentially use a DAC for my pre-amp) and it has performed nicely without issue for the past year+. The Waxwing brings a few new things to the table. The app control is a decent add and the dual digital outs would be a benefit in my setup (assuming it outputs on both Coax/Optical simultaneously).....but, the lack of improvements on the core internal electronics lowers its "upgrade value" for me. I still would recommend it to people and I would buy one if I was starting out, but I also don't feel much need to upgrade.

 

[dougi]

So explain these plots, please. You have a cartridge connected to the phono stage exactly how? It looks like it isn't in a shielded metal box or it's at the end of some unterminated, unshielded cable, and what's the 4k and 20k peaks all about?

And if you're using an MM cartridge as a typical load for noise testing, remove the stylus as it will otherwise pickup noise/vibration/movement etc.

The noise plots are done connected to the turntable. Yes, removing the mm stylus may reduce noise, but this represents real use and a real source impedance. Re the peaks, with at vm carts I've often seen 20 kHz peaks with switch mode power supplies around. Non dual magnet carts less so.

 

[Brian Hall]

Antcollinet,

You and I had a exchange about the Waxwing and BT in another thread, I have a few question

1 - no computer, can the waxwing be powered by a phone charger (usb) ?

What's in the box​

Waxwing Phono DSP, 5V USB power supply (worldwide voltages, US plug), USB power cable (USB-A to USB-B), quickstart card

2 - can it be used as a basic phono preamp, analog in and out ? Would anything be gained by coming out digital into my Benchmark DAC or too many changes

It has analog in from the turntable and analog out, but the analog in signal is converted to digital for processing and then back to analog. If you take the digital output to an external dac, it isn't doing any additional steps. I have the digital out going to an Eversolo DMP-A6 and using the A6's dac. Not saying an external dac is needed.

3 - once set up can the BT control be need constantly, if setting are already set?

The app is only needed when you want to make changes to settings or want to see the measured quality/grading of the record that is playing.

 

[antcollinet]

The point of the the plots was for thd only, not the noise. But I could repeat with some rca attenuators to reduce the source noise.

I'd be interested in seeing that - if only to see the difference in test method.

 

[Platypus20]

Thank you for replies, some thinking to do

 

[dougi]

I'd be interested in seeing that - if only to see the difference in test method.

Yeah, i'll do that over the next few days, when I can squeeze it in.

 

[Thomas_A]

The point of the the plots was for thd only, not the noise. But I could repeat with some rca attenuators to reduce the source noise.

I used Monacor ILA-1020 attenuators for my measurements. Two of them to get -40 dB.

Muffsy phono preamplifier minireview (update)

This review was updated September 21, 2023. Main change was the use of the E1DA Scaler to fix the impedance issues that is evident when using the E1DA ADC alone. This is an attempt to make a small review with measurements of the Muffsy MM phono preamplifier. It is a DIY kit so it is far from...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Snoopy]

I use the digital outputs.. coax into my headphone setup and the spdif into my stereo setup.

AT VM95ML cartridge.

Super happy with the DSP features.

The waxwing also works as line-in for other phono amps if someone wants more headroom or a tube phono stage etc and still use the DSP features.

 

[UK Sugden Fan]

I just picked up one of the Parks Audio Waxwing "digital" phono stages. The new model that replaces the Puffin that @amirm already measured.

There are threads about this product already, so I won't go into a lengthy introduction.

My use case is to use the ADC part only, to then run optical into my AMP (NAD C3050). The amp has it's own mm only digital phono stage, but not the flexibility the Waxwing should offer.

I measured it using my RME ADI-2 PRO and @pkane 's wondeful Multitone software. Toslink out of the Waxwing using 96kHz sample rate.

In it's natural environment:
View attachment 385628

THD IN MM (40dB gain) MODE
View attachment 385629
similar to Amir's measurement of the Puffin optical out (well, the THD component). Despite no attention to grounding, noise with the RME as a source is OK.

With a mm cart as a source with no signal (VM95ml) the noise is:
View attachment 385631
Noise does improve if you filter out the HF with the app (sorry about the different frequency scale:
View attachment 385632

While we are here, THD and noise measurements in MC (60dB, 200 ohms) mode (20 Hz HP, 30kHz LP here):

View attachment 385633
Strangely, the front end really likes actual MC carts w.r.t. noise, below with an AT OC9XEN. 81dB, cw 66dB mm, wrt full scale)
View attachment 385634

As per the Puffin, frequency response is perfect within the audio band:

View attachment 385638

This is with the 5 Hz HP filter. with the 20, and 30 kHz LP (20kHz does rolloff the top end a bit):

View attachment 385636

Overload of the ADC may be slightly better than the Puffin, I got ~27mV in mm mode at 1 kHz, with slightly better values at 5 and 10 kHz (not shown):
View attachment 385639
No need to show MC, effectively the same but reduced by 20dB so ~2.7mV at 1 kHz.

THE VARIOUS DSP FUNCTIONS THAT AFFECT FREQUENCY (all with 5 Hz HP, 48 kHz LP, so ignore the very bottom)
View attachment 385640

View attachment 385641
View attachment 385642
View attachment 385643
View attachment 385644
View attachment 385645
View attachment 385646

The bass boost should give a bit of punch. I didn't test the PEQ but I imagine, together with AIR, could flatten any cart's HF response with effort.

In using the Waxwing I would keep an eye on both ADC and DAC level monitors in the app. Certainly the RME input monitoring aligned with the DAC levels. I think this makes sense as I assume phono EQ and DSP are all post the ADC. While if you consider it a "normal" phono amp the headroom looks poor, you can reduce the gain any amount you want to give ADC/dig out headroom. I run it into the RME then onto the NAD, both of which I can monitor levels, so I am doing that 3 times!

I think the 15 or 20 Hz HP and 30kHz LP filters are a good compromise to use with it.

Is the support under your turntable an IKEA Aptilig Bamboo board?

 

[dougi]

Is the support under your turntable an IKEA Aptilig Bamboo board?

Yes it is.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Overload is poor.

I was an "early adopter" and can say with confidence that as long as you leave sufficient headroom at the ADC input - set by the gain control- you will never notice any "over the top" pops. I suspect @JP and others are correct about recovery from overloads. The biggest issue for LP lovers to overcome is getting past the idea of an "AD - DA" conversion happening in a phono preamp. I know this to be true because I used to be one of those people. Depleting my bank account by $500 and putting a Waxwing into service is all that was required to further my "audio education"!

 

[DualTriode]

Hi


Why?

And more to the point - what has this post got to do with the topic of this thread? Which is the Waxwing and its measurements. If you want to talk about the measurements of your Audiowind, it would be appropriate to start a separate thread.

Because vinyl is a analog format with all its' surface noise limitations and all.

Why the posted analog measurements?

To show that all the distortions and power supply junk shown in the posted digital measurements need not be included in the vinyl format. The analog measurements were just posted for an example.

Thanks DT

If you feel compelled do the digital conversion it is not an improvement.