Parasound XRM vs JC3 JR Phono Preamp

[Revelation Sound]

For those who have heard both phono preamps, how much of a difference would you expect to hear with the JC3 JR over the XRM? 5% or 10% improvement or is it even greater. They both offer 60db with the RCA outputs. My preamp does not have additional XLR inputs so I would have to use the RCA connectors. I am currently uisng the XRM phono preamp and am happy with the sounds I am getting with the Rega P6 with Ania Pro cartridge. What difference in sound is there between the two?
Thanks

 

[Balle Clorin]

What features do you need? MM capacitive loading choices, MC loading? Balance control ?

I would consider another cartridge instead , The Rega frequency response is downward an dull compared to others and channel separation poor

https://www.rega.co.uk/pdf/rega-ania-pro-hfw-apr20.pdf

 

[Revelation Sound]

So your saying a new cartridge would make a bigger difference than upgrading my $500 phono preamp?



Background on my situation. I just upgraded my turntable from a Dual CS 5000 with a grado cartridge to the Rega 6 and Ania Pro. Plus I recently purchased the Parasound XRM which has MC capability with a dial knob for getting the right setting for the cartridge. I was able to get the Ania Pro for the same price as the standard Ania cartridge.

I was just wondering if upgrading my phono preamp to the JC3 Jr would make a very small difference or big enough difference that it would be worth it. I won't be going up the food chain on turntables or cartridges where you have to spend a lot of money to get small improvements. That review you forwarded, the guy has a $4,000 phono preamp in his test. My wallet is not big enough to move up to that level on phono preamps or cartridges and I will be staying in the mid level range of audio gear. Thanks

 

[AaronJ]

I think you’d see far more enjoyment putting that $1000 difference into something else. Buy more records. Experiment with different cartridges. Add DSP.

With that said, this is at least the second thread you’ve created wondering about the JC3 Jr so maybe you will not be satisfied until you scratch that itch.

 

[Balle Clorin]

So your saying a new cartridge would make a bigger difference than upgrading my $500 phono preamp?

Yes much more difference between your Rega Cartridge and other cartridges than any RIAA. . You do not need by buy an expensive cartridge to notice the difference, Try a Rega Carbon at 30euro and see what you think. If you absolutely want a new RIAA why not consider Parks Audio Puffin - especially if you go for MC since it only has one single Capacitance of 50pF- it allows tuning the sound more than any cart or RIAA can do. You not not need 4000$ RIAA to enjoy a cartridge. I do not think a properly executed RIAA makes much of a difference besides noise Level and features( loading etc). I am sorry but there is many good and more neutral cartridges I would try before trying a new RIAA.
My point with the link was to show that your Rega cart is quite different from others and no RIAA will have such a large deviation from the correct equalization

 

[Revelation Sound]

I do not think a properly executed RIAA makes much of a difference besides noise Level and features( loading etc). I am sorry but there is many good and more neutral cartridges I would try before trying a new RIAA.
My point with the link was to show that your Rega cart is quite different from others and no RIAA will have such a large deviation from the correct equalization

What you say makes sense, but then when you read or watch all these phono preamp reviews, they make such a big deal about the differences between the preamps. Parasound vs PS Audio, vs Sutherland for example. It just makes one more curious about the differences.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I stopped believing Audio reviews 25 years ago… Claims must be backed up by measurements or else it is just sales pitch and hearsay . What reviewer’s hears is what they want to hear or are told to hear… sometimes they get it right.

It can be differences in overload margin, noiselevel a distortions, RIAA accuracy , channel balance ets, but most of the faults are obscured by the vinyl medium itselv.
One of the best measuring RIAAs is Cambridge Duo, it does not cost much and shows clearly that more excpencive units do not perform better, just possibly offer other features and marketing strategies,

 

[b_a_r]

I actually just did this exact comparison this last week. I will give my impressions of both. Please take these descriptions with a grain of salt, these are just my observations in my system.
I found the JC3 Jr to sound a bit thick and syrupy. Great bass.. but to me, it just did not portray instruments with the same realism as my previous phono’s.
It sounded like a warm, “hifi” unit and i felt like i was noticing it as a piece of ‘gear’ in the chain. To me, not transparent at all. I did experiment with the available variable loading option but it didn’t really address the issue.
Next: The XRM got back more of the natural representation of instruments and the imaging, phase and soundstage became really enjoyable. I did notice some similarities in both Parasound units that was hard to pin point but i call it the Parasound Sound?
Opening up the units and taking a look inside will reveal both phono pre’s don’t have a ton going on. The Jr. Has a few small boards and a Toroidal transformer spread out sparsely in the chassis.. XRM is obviously more densely packed. It appeared to me that the two had about the same amount of components and quality and i found the price discrepancy a bit suspect.
Sonically the Jr did not best the XRM, for me and my system.
Side note: a friend loaned me a custom step up transformer by Alien Audio (couldnt find anything about them online, local bay area i think) and am now experimenting running that into the MM input of the XRM and am liking the results.. a LOT. It really ups the XRM over running it MC + variable loading.
(I am running an AirTight Opus 1 on an SME 20/2 w/ a Graham Phantom II tonearm).
The Jr. didnt sound bad at all, i was just left searching for a lack of realism and clarity.
It’s been my experience that system synergy is often as important as the gear i’ve upgraded to in the past. More dollars does not always equal “better” sound.
If you have a local dealer who will let you demo both, i’d try them each and see what sounds best to your ears, in your system.

 

[Revelation Sound]

Thank you so much for your comments b_a_r. You have stated something similar to what another person said. They said the XRM was very clean and detailed while the JC3 Jr was more analog sounding. Based on many comments, the JC3+ is just slightly better than the JC3 Jr offering a tad more detail. I know John Curl is greatly respected and it makes one think he wanted a phono pre that had some character to it.
It makes me think perhaps the Sutherland 20/20 phono preamp maybe also be looked into? I am also interested in the McIntosh MP100 which insides look interesting. http://hi-fi.com.pl/images/numeryhfim/2017-05/3439052017/3439052017-002.jpg

 

[b_a_r]

Possibly.. i had one a friend was selling a few years back, battery powered. I remember it sounding ok. If you’re content with the XRM I’d maybe consider a cart upgrade v/s a phono pre upgrade?

 

[Revelation Sound]

Well I just upgraded to the Rega P6 and Ania Pro cartridge from my Dual 5000 turntable, so I already upgraded there. The XRM does sound very good. I am just wondering if in the $2,000 range I can get a enough of an improvement in sound over the XRM. Since I already have a McIntosh 152 amp, their phono preamp might be interesting to check out.

 

[b_a_r]

Understood! Elac PPA-2 has my curiosity..

 

[DVDdoug]

executed RIAA makes much of a difference besides noise Level and features( loading etc).

Right, noise is the thing the most likely thing to be different. But you really need apples-to-apples measurements (you CAN compare the reviews here). You can't really compare manufacturer's specs or different reviewer tests because there are different ways to make the measurements.

But once you drop the stylus the record noise usually drowns-out the preamp noise.

but most of the faults are obscured by the vinyl medium itsel(f).

Right! It doesn't take a ton of money to set-up a playback system that's better than the records.

found the JC3 Jr to sound a bit thick and syrupy.

Can I get 10dB more syrup? There is no such audio characteristic... There is ONLY is noise, distortion and frequency response with the electronics, and with analog vinyl there can be speed issues including wow & flutter, but those aren't usually audible problems unless your turntable is broken.

Great bass..

Does that mean the RIAA EQ is bad and the bass is boosted? Or the other one has bad RIAA EQ with the bass is reduced?

With the RIAA record & playback EQ together the frequency response should be "flat". I don't have any experience with new records but in the vinyl days the frequency response on records varied quite a bit and was generally mediocre with a few rare "good sounding" discs.

 

[b_a_r]

Right, noise is the thing the most likely thing to be different. But you really need apples-to-apples measurements (you CAN compare the reviews here). You can't really compare manufacturer's specs or different reviewer tests because there are different ways to make the measurements.

But once you drop the stylus the record noise usually drowns-out the preamp noise.

Right! It doesn't take a ton of money to set-up a playback system that's better than the records.

Can I get 10dB more syrup? There is no such audio characteristic... There is ONLY is noise, distortion and frequency response with the electronics, and with analog vinyl there can be speed issues including wow & flutter, but those aren't usually audible problems unless your turntable is broken.

Does that mean the RIAA EQ is bad and the bass is boosted? Or the other one has bad RIAA EQ with the bass is reduced?

With the RIAA record & playback EQ together the frequency response should be "flat". I don't have any experience with new records but in the vinyl days the frequency response on records varied quite a bit and was generally mediocre with a few rare "good sounding" discs.

Like i stated, these are just my observations and yea, i found it dark. Syrupy. Those are my descriptions and arguing that a certain description doesnt exist is pointless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Chrispy]

Dark, syrupy, oh so helpful in figuring out technical differences That's a good example of why subjective descriptions like that are not worth sh*t generally....

 

[b_a_r]

Dark, syrupy, oh so helpful in figuring out technical differences That's a good example of why subjective descriptions like that are not worth sh*t generally....

Lol ok

 

[Chrispy]

Lol ok

Ya think?

 

[b_a_r]

Yea actually i do. The OP was asking for people that have heard these units to report in.. and you hijacking the thread just to post some passive aggressive sh*t talk response is probably "not worth sh*t" to OP or helpful to his query. Dark as opposed to bright. Syrupy as opposed to open. Pretty common understood sonic characteristics used to describe how some gear sounds. If you've compared these units, maybe think about joining in the conversation in helpful way instead of being a jerk.

 

[Bob from Florida]

What you say makes sense, but then when you read or watch all these phono preamp reviews, they make such a big deal about the differences between the preamps. Parasound vs PS Audio, vs Sutherland for example. It just makes one more curious about the differences.

It's called "Marketing" - to get folks interested. You appear to be interested enough to buy something. Preamps are easier to swap than phono cartridges. Order it from someplace with a generous return policy and find out.

 

[BDWoody]

Yea actually i do. The OP was asking for people that have heard these units to report in.. and you hijacking the thread just to post some passive aggressive sh*t talk response is probably "not worth sh*t" to OP or helpful to his query. Dark as opposed to bright. . If you've compared these units, maybe think about joining in the conversation in helpful way instead of being a jerk.

The problem is that these listening impressions aren't going to mean much since the comparisons were done with no controls.

Dark as opposed to bright. Syrupy as opposed to open. Pretty common understood sonic characteristics used to describe how some gear sounds

Commonly used, but pretty much worthless.

If you've compared these units, maybe think about joining in the conversation in helpful way instead of being a jerk.

Maybe you could read through more of the forum and get a better idea of what you can expect here.

Those are my descriptions and arguing that a certain description doesnt exist is pointless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whereas around here, the audio buzzword bingo game tends to make eyes roll.