• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Panasonic 2018 flagship UB9000 Blu-ray player launching at Value Electronics

garbulky

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
916
Likes
277
#41
So, not high end, but ultra high end eh?! I guess the prices on ultra high end gear have dropped lately! :p Here I was thinking the high end $400 UDH player was good enough! Nope, it's ultra high end for me from now on!
 

DonH56

Technical Expert
Technical Expert
Patreon Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,977
Likes
3,531
Location
Monument, CO
#43
No good deed goes unpunished...

The lack of support for SACD (and DVD-A, though there seem to be far fewer of those around), rules it out as a high-end universal player for audiophiles. Still worth discussing here as a video player, especially since we are in the (ahem) Other Areas of Interest/Best Video and Home Theater Forum area of ASR... Where was he supposed to post it?

That said, the XLR and multichannel audio outputs indicate a nod to audiophiles (understatement), yet it doesn't support a key high-end audio format? Licensing and "I hate the other guys" aside, this strikes me as missing the boat on their part... They just blew off a significant (guessing there) market segment for $1k players. Alas, that is a deal-breaker for me...
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,513
Likes
25,025
Location
Seattle Area
#44
My SACD discs are in storage and I have no need to play them. Ditto for DVD-A.

I think the interest here would be playing the sound from Blu-ray/UHD discs through analog out to one's 2-channel system that doesn't have HDMI in. Digital audio out over S/PDIF by AACS copy protection is disallowed above 48 kHz.
 

svart-hvitt

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
2,375
Likes
1,133
#45
My SACD discs are in storage and I have no need to play them. Ditto for DVD-A.

I think the interest here would be playing the sound from Blu-ray/UHD discs through analog out to one's 2-channel system that doesn't have HDMI in. Digital audio out over S/PDIF by AACS copy protection is disallowed above 48 kHz.
@amirm , you wrote:

«Digital audio out over S/PDIF by AACS copy protection is disallowed above 48 kHz».

Curious so do you have source, background?
 

jhaider

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
322
Likes
208
#46

DonH56

Technical Expert
Technical Expert
Patreon Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,977
Likes
3,531
Location
Monument, CO
#47
My SACD discs are in storage and I have no need to play them. Ditto for DVD-A.

I think the interest here would be playing the sound from Blu-ray/UHD discs through analog out to one's 2-channel system that doesn't have HDMI in. Digital audio out over S/PDIF by AACS copy protection is disallowed above 48 kHz.
Maybe if you weren't busy testing so much Schiit you'd have more time for your SACDs... :) I have only a few but the true multichannel format is really nice so I plan to grab more. I am not really set up for streaming right now (have a NAS and SONOS but SONOS does not do hi-res multichannel).
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,426
Likes
520
#48
I have a huge SACD collection primarily in Mch, which is what I normally prefer to play. Fortunately, my SACDs are all ripped to my NAS by the thousands. And, the Panasonic player would support them from ripped files, I believe, although I already have a Mch DAC, so I don't need or want the Panasonic's audio capabilities, specifically from SACD discs. I also could not use the unit's "advanced" video, since I cannot route that via my HTPC due to DRM.

Nonetheless, for others with less persnickety requirements, I could see this unit potentially having appeal for 4K, HDR video early adopters, which I personally am not ready for. It's still too early in the game for me. And, according to Widescreen Review, a thoroughly excellent magazine, 4K releases to date have been largely disappointing, mainly sourced and mastered in 2k, then uprezzed. That will undoubtedly change, though. But, if you only value the artistry and content of less than 5% of movies, as I do, there is no rush.

As always, the hardware guys are chomping at the bit, like Thomas Savage, the horse, and way ahead of available media software. It will happen in 4K HDR, but only gradually.

So, I see this unit as slightly limited in audio, due to lack of SACD support, and while maybe advanced in video, pointing to the future, I personally have no interest now, thanks.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,513
Likes
25,025
Location
Seattle Area
#49

restorer-john

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
2,342
Likes
3,715
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
#50
Doesn't the back panel say that it's made in China?
Well it seems they also make/assemble the Chinese built parts in the Czech Republic and China as I first stated. Clearly the Region 2 machines for Europe come from the Czech republic. Probably some EU rule for 'European content' in imported goods or the like.

czech republic.JPG


made in china.JPG
 
Last edited:

restorer-john

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
2,342
Likes
3,715
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
#51
heat sinked on the far right and the fan is only needed on the power supply.
The unit clearly generates heat as Panasonic have put a fan pulling air directly across (it's right behind it) the grid-fin heatsink (which is obviously the video processor) and likely to run very hot. That size fin with forced air is likely around 15-20W TDP, which would correlate reasonably with the total 37/39W rated consumption on the compliance label. There appears to be little or no venting/airflow around the SMPS PSU components which are on the other side of the case.

That would mean the small (~50mm) fan runs pretty much all the time and likely quite fast. Maybe not audible for loud movies, but for music, fans are simply unacceptable and failure prone.
 

Timbo2

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
310
Likes
167
Location
USA
#52
The unit clearly generates heat as Panasonic have put a fan pulling air directly across (it's right behind it) the grid-fin heatsink (which is obviously the video processor) and likely to run very hot. That size fin with forced air is likely around 15-20W TDP, which would correlate reasonably with the total 37/39W rated consumption on the compliance label. There appears to be little or no venting/airflow around the SMPS PSU components which are on the other side of the case.

That would mean the small (~50mm) fan runs pretty much all the time and likely quite fast. Maybe not audible for loud movies, but for music, fans are simply unacceptable and failure prone.
Thanks, I flipped the location of the fan in my head. You're right it is right next to the processor.

My Intel 4130T has a TDP of 35W and it uses an entire aluminium case that is 200mm x 300mm x 100mm finned on three sides to act as a passive heat sink. But that is overkill as there are other heat producing components in the build.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,513
Likes
25,025
Location
Seattle Area
#54
@amirm , this makes me even more curious.

So let me ask you a stupid question:

Why set the upper blu-Ray/hdmi resolution limit at 1648 for spdif out?
It was due to fear of people stealing the high-quality soundtrack. If you transmit it over copy protected links like HDMI, the player can and does send the original stream. But if you attempt to spit it out over unprotected links like Toslink/SPDIF, it must be downgraded as noted. Same provision is there for video from what I recall.

This was a compromise as the hardliners in studios want no sound whatsoever to come out of the unprotected connections. As "IT" (computer) folks (Intel and Microsoft) and to some extent consumer electronics companies, we fought and got this kind of compromise.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,426
Likes
520
#55
But, isn't it even more complicated? Most BDs have had multiple "streams" - a stereo LPCM, plus Mch lossless DTS HDMA or Dolby True HD codecs, typically at 48k/24. The stereo LPCM will transmit digitally via coax or Toslink subject to the limits. The lossless codecs, even if the player can decode them, will not, but they will transmit lossy "core" Mch DTS or Dolby via coax or Toslink. But, HDMI will allow max resolution, since it includes DRM. These limits are enforced on the player manufacturer by licensing agreements. Analog out by the player is unrestricted.

Incidentally, universal players with SACD will only play digitally via HDMI in DSD or converted to PCM by the player, plus, of course, analog out. Coax, etc. digital outputs are turned off.

Ripping to hard drive using unlocking software eliminates all these restrictions for BD and DSD files ripped from SACD. But, it ain't legal and some of these software providers have been pursued by the studios and shut down in their home, offshore countries. They just moved to a different country.
 

Sal1950

Major Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
5,708
Likes
3,193
Location
Central Fl
#56
This was a compromise as the hardliners in studios want no sound whatsoever to come out of the unprotected connections. As "IT" (computer) folks (Intel and Microsoft) and to some extent consumer electronics companies, we fought and got this kind of compromise.
Sounds a bit like the labels support for MQA to me. ;)
 

Sal1950

Major Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
5,708
Likes
3,193
Location
Central Fl
#57
At least for now. I expect Sony realizes that and going forward will reserve universality for their most expensive player. That is analogous to how Anthem's first AVR lineup all had the same processing capabilities but increasing amplifier power at higher price points. Smart people all bought the cheap one! In their second go around and beyond, Anthem lowered the channel count on the cheaper ones (without lowering the price compared to the previous entry level) to entice buyers to spend more.
Sounds like if I want a SACD spinner on the cheap I might grab a X800 now? Problem being I don't have any SACD at the present and the few multich's out there in the popular genre are expensive. Might just wait a bit to see if my Sammy UHD BD player lets the smoke out any time soon. Dang I wish there was more interest in multich from the studios ------------------------
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,426
Likes
520
#58
The pop music engineering and production guys are just not geared up for it, and it is too much of a niche for their high volume business model. Frankly, studio recording, which most pop is, doesn't really benefit that much from Mch, unless you like performers panned around you in "surround sound". I tire of that quickly, myself.

So, all you have to do is change the listening habits of a lifetime. There are tons of excellent Mch in classical. Not interested? I fully understand and sympathize.
 

svart-hvitt

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
2,375
Likes
1,133
#59
It was due to fear of people stealing the high-quality soundtrack. If you transmit it over copy protected links like HDMI, the player can and does send the original stream. But if you attempt to spit it out over unprotected links like Toslink/SPDIF, it must be downgraded as noted. Same provision is there for video from what I recall.

This was a compromise as the hardliners in studios want no sound whatsoever to come out of the unprotected connections. As "IT" (computer) folks (Intel and Microsoft) and to some extent consumer electronics companies, we fought and got this kind of compromise.
Thanks @amirm for telling this story. It seems like you think the white hat in your avatar picture is earned ;)

(For new readers: See Peter Aczel’s white vs black hat stories for reference to the white hat analogy).

Your story casts light on our hi-res debate too; it’s obviously important for studios to NOT distribute anything higher than 1648.

I am not surprised by your story but it’s always nice to have a source and reference. Thanks again!
 
Top Bottom