Palmer Orbit 11 Monitor Review

[Torinoscale]

thanks for the detailed review and measurement! As someone who would use them at about 1.2 m away and at not very high volumes I don’t see too many downsides here, or am I missing something? Sure, they might not get super loud distortion free in a far field setting, but that’s really not my use case. I also would use Arc studio with them anyway, so not really concerned with the bass buildup also. I heard Kii Sevens once and absolutely loved them, but they‘re not exactly affordable. This seems to combine a few of the strengths of the Kiis at a very intruiging price. (I know it’s not the same!) I used to have Barefoot footprint01s (1st gen), which sre great, but they were too tiring for my ears and I couldn‘t work long on them. Then I had Kali IN5s which are great for the money, but had a very weird low mid thing going on. I‘m using Eve SC207 right now, I can work on them for hours, no problem, but they seem to lack clarity and the expanded bass response obviously. Will definitely try out a pair of the Orbits as soon as they are available again!

 

[delta76]

Good speaker, just not the slam dunk we’ve waited for. 8040 and KH120 are still safer bet

 

[Ogremic]

So, this confirms what we knew. Excellent for near field use, not so much for mid field hi-fi use as standalone. If subwoofers are involved, they're good there too, but I think you are better served by ascilabs f6b, they're excellent.

Great time for the buyer, between those 2, I could use any one of them. F6B with an ik multimedia sub and you're set, or Orbit 11, both very good choices

 

[Audionaut]

In the other thread about the Palmer, I wrote:

"If I were to recommend speakers to someone right now for around 800 euros each, the Palmers would definitely be one of the possible options.
Amir’s review probably won’t change that, unless he finds a previously unknown flaw, which I don’t expect."

Well, here’s the unexpected flaw:

When I first started to test the speaker, I thought something was broken as the speaker clipping indicator would keep coming on. I realized after some testing that it does so at any level above 86 dBSPL. So no wonder distortion shoots way up at 96 dBSPL:

Either the test unit is defective—or the speaker is (for me) unusable, because in my opinion, one of the primary goals of a speaker should be to be able to produce adequate sound pressure and not to give up the ghost as soon as the volume is turned up.
So the Palmer is not a loudspeaker, it is a quietspeaker. Too bad.
In addition, there are some irregularities in the directionality across the frequency response—not ideal either.

I need to take another look at the reviews by Stoneeh and Nuyes, who seemed satisfied with the volume—at least, that’s my impression; in any case, they didn’t mention the clipping indicator.
So either it’s a defective test unit or, in my opinion, only of very limited use.

 

[Zvu]

Main problem is that people see this loudspeaker as just studio monitor.

This actually is slam-dunk most have waited for. It measures better than Kii Seven actually. I don't understand bass critique also. Go look for a bass response and distortion in Kef LS50meta or better yet Kef LS50 wireless II. Oh, and don't forget to look at the price tag too. For European homes and rooms up to 40sqm (built with hard materials) this is a triple win. Use Wiim streamer and make it a full system for under 2000 euros (speaker, dacs, amps and streaming) and you get cardioid response and bass eq options built in and all that in an aluminium cabinets that doesn't get warm at all even at prolonged listening (which can not be said even for Kii Three).

 

[Sokel]

Passive speaker with single 6" bass vs. 2x8" in an active design?
Mini Genelec speaker with 5" bass? These are simply no comparison.
Value for money may be no review criteria but it surely is a big selling point.

That's kind of the problem right there.

All these drivers stuffed together sure imply lots of things.

Two 8" drivers should go low with low distortion and high SPL, that is what intuition suggests.
But as with a ton of things in audio, when measurements get in the room intuition gets out the window.

And measurements clearly show that the 2 8" can go low (with brute DSP force) but physics laugh about clean SPL.
To get a proper intuition about drivers, all one can do is play a 8"-10"-12" driver on its own, with no enclosure. Yep, no lows.
About the drivers themselves, price usually goes up with the tech and voice coil size. At low cost, compromises get seriously in the way.

Not that is a bad speaker, not at all.Is just fine at nearfield with some scrutiny probably. But that's that.
You get what you pay for.

Thanks Amir!

 

[Ratterbass]

In the other thread about the Palmer, I wrote:

"If I were to recommend speakers to someone right now for around 800 euros each, the Palmers would definitely be one of the possible options.
Amir’s review probably won’t change that, unless he finds a previously unknown flaw, which I don’t expect."

Well, here’s the unexpected flaw:


Either the test unit is defective—or the speaker is (for me) unusable, because in my opinion, one of the primary goals of a speaker should be to be able to produce adequate sound pressure and not to give up the ghost as soon as the volume is turned up.
So the Palmer is not a loudspeaker, it is a quietspeaker. Too bad.
In addition, there are some irregularities in the directionality across the frequency response—not ideal either.

I need to take another look at the reviews by Stoneeh and Nuyes, who seemed satisfied with the volume—at least, that’s my impression; in any case, they didn’t mention the clipping indicator.
So either it’s a defective test unit or, in my opinion, only of very limited use.

We already knew about the high THD above 86dB. Just because there’s an LED telling, things don’t change.

86dB is perfectly fine for its intended use case

 

[Mnyb]

I don’t think professional users armchair engineers it and buy unsighted

They all have some EQ correction in use .

So they will try their prospective speakers in situ with their own measurements and corrections in place .
Question is then can they make it work for them ?

We listeners can have a more relaxed view if we choose to ”sounds good to me” the pro user must also consider if it sound correct to the source ( or can be made to sound correct ) .

This product seems to worth considering especially if the cardiod helps in some way , coax is also good for nearfield ?

My own process was picking candidates that where considered well engineered and discarded other candidates.
Then came practical considerations like service and dealer representation, I did not want to buy to exotic stuff for that kind of money .
I then bought a cheaper speaker of the same brand for a secondary use case ( kitchen ) and lived with them for some time then I auditioned bigger varieties for my main system.
I’m convinced I got fairly accurate sound with some flair to my taste , but no one would mix or master on my systems

I professional user migth have a more involved process of picking speakers ?

Hopefully amirm review spreads some light on what these can and can’t do for you .

 

[TimVG]

Just be prepared to either use auto-EQ or fair bit of manual tuning. This is not a plug and play solution.

Thank you for the expedidet review!

This is exactly what I wrote in the other thread.

The step in sound power in the modal range is not great in the far field. Upside is that by leveling it down (onboard controls work well for this) you'll gain some output capability relatively speaking.

For those not seeing the value here:

-You still get a very capable system in the farfield when used highpassed with subs.
-very well executed beamwidth control down to the modal range unlike most speakers.
-Good, moderately wide, overall directivity

Personally I'll take this combination over ruler flat/perfect directivity but with a collapsing polar but YMMV.

 

[Audionaut]

Just because there’s an LED telling, things don’t change.

86dB is perfectly fine for its intended use case

You could also look at it from a more nuanced perspective, because I’d find both of them annoying. If you or others can live with it—okay

 

[Sokel]

We already knew about the high THD above 86dB. Just because there’s an LED telling, things don’t change.

86dB is perfectly fine for its intended use case

If 86dB SPL is true clipping, monitoring should be done around 65dB SPL average for some works.
It's the range that matters, not the peak.

 

[sidechain]

If 86dB SPL is true clipping, monitoring should be done around 65dB SPL average for some works.
It's the range that matters, not the peak.

If I'm not mistaken, measurements were done with a single speaker so the SPL clipping ceiling will be higher using a pair. If people intending to use near field studio monitors buy 8040s or KH120s instead of this more power to them and I wish them the best, but they're spec'd closer to small Ones or KH310s. If you're looking for a mid field pair for your living room don't buy this.

 

[Ratterbass]

If 86dB SPL is true clipping, monitoring should be done around 65dB SPL average for some works.
It's the range that matters, not the peak.

We have the THD charts, so we know it’s not even on its last legs at 86. We already knew first day that there’s a limiter built in (though we didn’t know the threshold). Apart from the seemingly inconsistent hiss it seems to me all reported „flaws“ are only relevant to mid and far field use, which this product was never meant to be used in.

I get that some were hoping for a true master of all trades for basically no money (compared to the alternatives), but I don’t get why some are judging the quality of this product by standards which it was never meant to be compared to.

If you’re looking for a family van, you don’t fault an M3 for being way too small. It’s a near field speaker, most near fields suck at mid and far field.

 

[Ogremic]

Upside is that by leveling it down (onboard controls work well for this) you'll gain some output capability relatively speaking.

For those not seeing the value here:

-You still get a very capable system in the farfield when used highpassed with subs.
-very well executed beamwidth control down to the modal range unlike most speakers.
-Good, moderately wide, overall directivity

Personally I'll take this combination over ruler flat/perfect directivity but with a collapsing polar but YMMV.

I wanted to say about this and I forgot. Yeah, that step in listening room that Amir noted is exactly at the freq the manufacturer inserted a low freq shelf, because they knew. So, by doing so, -4dB, you let the whole spl without distortion rise a bit, which helps. I still don't understand why such discrepancies between the stated spl and the amir measured one, I don't remember the other ones that measured it to reach that low spl before distorsion

 

[amirm]

We have the THD charts, so we know it’s not even on its last legs at 86. We already knew first day that there’s a limiter built in (though we didn’t know the threshold). Apart from the seemingly inconsistent hiss it seems to me all reported „flaws“ are only relevant to mid and far field use, which this product was never meant to be used in.

If you want the sub-bass reproduced, then they are deficient in near-field use as well. You just can't turn up the volume with any energy down there. It gets distorted and progressively gets less loud if you crank up the volume. The limits are seriously low there.

To confirm, all of my testing was in near field, sitting at 1.5 to 2 meters/4 to 6 feet away. Granted, one speaker only.

 

[Sokel]

If I'm not mistaken, measurements were done with a single speaker so the SPL clipping ceiling will be higher using a pair. If people intending to use near field studio monitors buy 8040s or KH120s instead of this more power to them and I wish them the best, but they're spec'd closer to small Ones or KH310s. If you're looking for a mid field pair for your living room don't buy this.

Neither KH310 or small Ones are not far-field monitors.
Far-field monitors are usually mains monitors territory, far bigger than those, KH420 is borderline for example.

For hi-fi use though, imagination is the limit probably, people use any gear at any place. That's another story.

 

[amirm]

I still don't understand why such discrepancies between the stated spl and the amir measured one

There are no standards here. If you allow 80% distortion, you can go up to 101 dBSPL.

 

[respice finem]

There are no standards here. If you allow 80% distortion, you can go up to 101 dBSPL.

Maybe it should be called dBopt then (opt for optimistic)

 

[sidechain]

Neither KH310 or small Ones are not far-field monitors.
Far-field monitors are usually mains monitors territory, far bigger than those, KH420 is borderline for example.

For hi-fi use though, imagination is the limit probably, people use any gear at any place. That's another story.

I’m not sure I understand your reply, I never said KH310 or small ones are far field.

 

[Liftro]

Well, you can't have everything at this price. I'm concerned about the sound pressure. It's not crucial, but given the amplification capacity, I expected something better, since I sometimes like to turn up the volume and feel the music throughout the room, even though it's not very healthy for my hearing. I'll definitely need a pair of subwoofers, but I was hoping to postpone this expense with them. I'll keep thinking about buying them. Thanks to Palmer for sending the speaker to Amirm for testing, and to Amirm for conducting the tests. Your work is crucial and of great value to consumers and people who don't want to spend millions to enjoy decent sound quality. Cheers.