Thank you, @illusonic, would you consider a pair of these for Home (Large Room) use....In case anyone wondered how Palmer could release such an advanced product seemingly out of nowhere, look at this speaker from LD Systems (belongs to Palmer). Cardioid midrange and optionally also bass (requires second sub). Check the videos. The way the bass module automatically goes into slave mode, which only allows cardioid mode de-/activation, once the column speaker is removed, showcases their attention to detail and system integration. Also the display reminds me of the Orbits, although the implementation on the latter is more advanced.
LD Systems MAUI® 44 G2 | MAUI G3 | LD Systems
Column systems have literally revolutionized numerous application areas for bands and DJs. Never has it been easier to provide a consistent sound solution from a simple, inconspicuous PA system - even in large spaces. The MAUI® 44 G2 is...www.ld-systems.com
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Palmer Orbit 11 Monitor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Well (going off Erin's measurements), turning these off axis 30 degrees seems to create a slight dip in the upper mid-range. Personally, I would just keep them on axis.
Thank you, @heflys20, do you have a link to Erin's measurements?
It's on his Patreon, unfortunately.
In case anyone wondered how Palmer could release such an advanced product seemingly out of nowhere, look at this speaker from LD Systems (belongs to Palmer). Cardioid midrange and optionally also bass (requires second sub). Check the videos. The way the bass module automatically goes into slave mode, which only allows cardioid mode de-/activation, once the column speaker is removed, showcases their attention to detail and system integration. Also the display reminds me of the Orbits, although the implementation on the latter is more advanced.
LD Systems MAUI® 44 G2 | MAUI G3 | LD Systems
Column systems have literally revolutionized numerous application areas for bands and DJs. Never has it been easier to provide a consistent sound solution from a simple, inconspicuous PA system - even in large spaces. The MAUI® 44 G2 is...
View attachment 530185View attachment 530189
This system seems to have been around since 2020. There is even a detailed measurement report on it: https://portal.adamhall.com/api/v1/...download/18a33ad6-f93b-4122-aacb-f5378ee6d28c
Look up their MAILA and CURV systems as well.
All their array speakers are capable of SPL at low distortion that put the hyped up big budget big brand studio monitors around these parts completely to shame.
A weak spot of the MAUI is the sharp transition in directivity from lowmids to midhighs. Otherwise, the objective performance would be frankly ridiculous for the price. But even that could probably be improved with a moderate engineering effort.
Thank you, @Elisando, is there an English version of the German Test/Mesure pdf?
Tovarich007
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It's very pity Erin is using from now on much more his Patreon site than his free YT channel.
Is Erin's test close to Amir test on ASR ?
Would you sum up (of course without publishing the figures, graphs and text which are protected) his measurements and listening feedback ?
I think most of us would appreciate this.
Aside from Erin finding a peak at 16khz, measurements are mostly the same. He found the bass tuning to be slightly strange and a bit bloated, and that the speaker is best suited for nearfield listening. He felt the speaker sounded bright at farfield or, potentially, in a reflective room. He recommends the speaker be angled at 10 degrees for best response. He likes the speakers SPL capabilities and cardioid response. He feels the speaker could use a few tweaks, but, overall, especially for the price, finds it to be a good product.
Would love to see this compared to a Devialet Phantom.
"Just shows you can't beat physics" seems silly: It goes shockingly lower than most anyone would expect, and the Devialet Phantom series is like that even more so. I think it just shows that most speaker companies don't try hard enough to do things like use egregious amounts of power and excursion with rigid materials that won't distort too much.
Most speakers "obeying physics" at this size would just sound like purposefully busted garbage. Glad this sounds like it doesn't.
"Just shows you can't beat physics" seems silly: It goes shockingly lower than most anyone would expect, and the Devialet Phantom series is like that even more so. I think it just shows that most speaker companies don't try hard enough to do things like use egregious amounts of power and excursion with rigid materials that won't distort too much.
Most speakers "obeying physics" at this size would just sound like purposefully busted garbage. Glad this sounds like it doesn't.
I have to agree. The bass in my (small) roomn with the Orbits is actually exceptional. A qualifier: my seat is very close to the wall behind me, so extra boundary enforcement; and speakers only about 10ft away. And I don't attempt or want SPL levels of live Pink Floyd playing in my room. But I can't get the limiting lights or sound to come on at any level I can imagine listening at, even with pipe organ in something like "Good Places" (Beaver and Krause,), about the only infra bass I listen to at blasting levels.
Another qualifier: bass didn't sound great at first, rather thumpy actually, but after a quick run of Wiim Ultra's Roomfit auro-EQ -- wow. An Ulta and these things makes an amazing system for me.
I'm also not having noise problems, at ALL. Given that I have the hf hearing loss common to people my age, but I had to turn the sensitivity to max to hear any noise at all even from just a few inches away. I use digital input, and at lowest sensitivity in use so needless to say I hear no noise at all at any closeness. So maybe Palmer fixed it, or maybe my higher frequency hearing is a lot worse than others is.
I currently have the Ascilabs C6B set aside, will switch back to them (with subs) soon to compare again. Not sure which I'll like better. Ascis have an elegance to ther sound (maybe expectation bias from seeing their curves?), the Orbits are maybe more real, at least in TV dialog (and certainly in bass).
I think the Orbits have me less aware of the asymmetry of my room (large glass doors close at left, wide open to the rest of the house at right), but again maybe that's expectation and knowing they stay directional down another two octaves. Can't 'hear' the cabinets of either Asci or Palmer, sound never sounds like its from the speakers
Maybe I'll keep both and let my kids deal with speakers in storage when I kick off...
Anyway, I think the claims of too-many-compromises with Orbit11s are nonsense. It's more like they went for *everything*, maybe pushed too hard for ultra low end, but it's really a great result me. but maybe not for large rooms or if you like loud rap or disco.
Another qualifier: bass didn't sound great at first, rather thumpy actually, but after a quick run of Wiim Ultra's Roomfit auro-EQ -- wow. An Ulta and these things makes an amazing system for me.
I'm also not having noise problems, at ALL. Given that I have the hf hearing loss common to people my age, but I had to turn the sensitivity to max to hear any noise at all even from just a few inches away. I use digital input, and at lowest sensitivity in use so needless to say I hear no noise at all at any closeness. So maybe Palmer fixed it, or maybe my higher frequency hearing is a lot worse than others is.
I currently have the Ascilabs C6B set aside, will switch back to them (with subs) soon to compare again. Not sure which I'll like better. Ascis have an elegance to ther sound (maybe expectation bias from seeing their curves?), the Orbits are maybe more real, at least in TV dialog (and certainly in bass).
I think the Orbits have me less aware of the asymmetry of my room (large glass doors close at left, wide open to the rest of the house at right), but again maybe that's expectation and knowing they stay directional down another two octaves. Can't 'hear' the cabinets of either Asci or Palmer, sound never sounds like its from the speakers
Maybe I'll keep both and let my kids deal with speakers in storage when I kick off...
Anyway, I think the claims of too-many-compromises with Orbit11s are nonsense. It's more like they went for *everything*, maybe pushed too hard for ultra low end, but it's really a great result me. but maybe not for large rooms or if you like loud rap or disco.
thank you for the sharing, can't wait to see your comparison, Orbits 11 vs. C6B.
BassTinker
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One more thing: the "mother company" of all of Them is Adam Hall, located near Frankfurt/Germany. You might have seem them from Live Music/Concert accessories like flight cases, but also FOH and professional light equipment. Quite a big company with around 350 - 400/employess. Palmer and LD belong both to Adam Hall.
R&D for all Adam Hall products takes places in the same (and quite fancy) facilities close to Frankfurt.
TheWoolyBully
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Have you gotten around to it yet?
Sadly, no. My girlfriend has Parkinsons which has made her very sensitive to loud or even not-loud sounds, so I don't get to do much listening except for tv. She'll be completing a surgical process that should help reduce Parkinson's symptoms so I'm, hopeful...Orbits still sound great and I haven't been in any rush to switch them out, but I do plan to do that when I get a chance just to go back to the C6B+subs to re-compare.
First I want to kick in the subs also with the Orbits to see if that makes much difference. I'll do a phase and delay eq on the subs so they track the Orbits at sub frequencies, then play them together with an overall low shelf to set the sub frequency response back down again. I had thoughts of trying to get the subs+Orbits to act cardioid in lower frequencies, but I doubt I'll get to that, which would take a lot more playing around with eqs and levels and comparing on and off-axis.
Also measured and reviewed by Erin, though video is late.
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Tovarich007
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Thanks a lot for publishing this video and graphs. I was waiting for this Erin's review.
Not bad at all speaker, but some not negligible flaws anyway :
- the compression is too strong.
- the woofers and their powerful amps sound perhaps too constrained in such a small enclosure.
Some clues : the group delay and the distorsion at high level aren't that good in the bass and low medium (without being catastrophic too).
The cardoîd design tends to lower a bit too much the measured medium level and probably the perceived one, compared to the bass and treble regions.
Not sure it's really an advantage compared to a more classic and simple design, at least for listening (for mixing at short distance, maybe it's an advantage but I'm not so sure of it). I feel perplex from a long time about this cardoïd fashion for nearfield or midfield monitors anyway.
.
The treble maybe picky on axis and slightly off axis. I don't feel personally concerned by this point, my hearing being lost for the highest octave, but for professionnals and good young audiophiles ears, that's a problem (not catastrophic but anyway EQ is highly recommanded to fix it).
Good news : the hiss and residual noise isn't so important as some forumers -not all- wrote it is. If so, Erin would have perceived it even it was not his main concern.
All in all, a good product with a very good VFM considering all it offers and overall construction quality and smart design, but with imperfections that could be corrected with a V2, if ever there is one, and better algorithms for setting the compression.
My conclusion : This palmer Orbit iis a good deal but not on a par with a Genelec, a Neumann or a PSI.
But of course, prices aren't the same and that matters much for the majority of people.
Not bad at all speaker, but some not negligible flaws anyway :
- the compression is too strong.
- the woofers and their powerful amps sound perhaps too constrained in such a small enclosure.
Some clues : the group delay and the distorsion at high level aren't that good in the bass and low medium (without being catastrophic too).
The cardoîd design tends to lower a bit too much the measured medium level and probably the perceived one, compared to the bass and treble regions.
Not sure it's really an advantage compared to a more classic and simple design, at least for listening (for mixing at short distance, maybe it's an advantage but I'm not so sure of it). I feel perplex from a long time about this cardoïd fashion for nearfield or midfield monitors anyway.
.
The treble maybe picky on axis and slightly off axis. I don't feel personally concerned by this point, my hearing being lost for the highest octave, but for professionnals and good young audiophiles ears, that's a problem (not catastrophic but anyway EQ is highly recommanded to fix it).
Good news : the hiss and residual noise isn't so important as some forumers -not all- wrote it is. If so, Erin would have perceived it even it was not his main concern.
All in all, a good product with a very good VFM considering all it offers and overall construction quality and smart design, but with imperfections that could be corrected with a V2, if ever there is one, and better algorithms for setting the compression.
My conclusion : This palmer Orbit iis a good deal but not on a par with a Genelec, a Neumann or a PSI.
But of course, prices aren't the same and that matters much for the majority of people.
They are so tiny that at one point their good power and drivers are fighting physics.
I imagine many of these problems disappear when you have it crossed over to a subwoofer, no? Which would be required for Genelecs and Neumanns to obtain the same low-end output. And the 2-way Genelecs have worse vertical directivity.
The point about cardioid on the Orbit 11, at least for some of us, is that it extends directivity another 2 octaves below what could otherwise be done in a non-gigantic loudspeaker. For example, think about how large of a horn would be required for directivity down to 250Hz -- about 2ft wide, likely significantly larger! And even the big horns like Everest don't control pattern down to 250Hz. Sure, big horns with compression drivers will play way, way, louder without stress, but I personally have no need or desire for sound that loud anymore (my impress-the-guys-with-my-loud-speakers days are long over). YMMV
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