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Palmer Orbit 11 Monitor Review

Rate this monitor speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 47 18.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 136 53.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 65 25.6%

  • Total voters
    254
IRS2093MPbF
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the Informations.
A Class D design from Infineon dating from 2008–2009.
In my opinion, this is a bottleneck and a bit disappointing, since a more modern solution wouldn't have been significantly more expensive.
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the Informations.
A Class D design from Infineon dating from 2008–2009.
In my opinion, this is a bottleneck and a bit disappointing, since a more modern solution wouldn't have been significantly more expensive.
Yes, these are also my thoughts. But I don't want to speculate on that, since I don't have the qualifications to judge the power electronics circuit design. I just wanted to share the information since I think few people are willing to disassemble their factory new speakers and maybe there is someone amongst our ranks that is qualified enough to comment on this design choice. I also have photos of the PCB but I will only share these if there is someone, who can actually derive anything useful from that.
 
I can totally see how the noise will be a dealbreaker for some and I sincerely hope, Palmer will update the design to address this.
How does the noise compare to the old Focal Alpha? I know them, and unlike their successors, they're not exactly the quietest monitors out there, they would bother me as computer speakers. If the Orbits are similar or even worse that would be a deal breaker.

I also have photos of the PCB
It'd be great if you could share them, I'd like to see what caps they use since the whole Neumamnn debate is still going on.
Palmer gives these a five year warranty, they seem to be fairly confident and can't really afford to have their debut product fail at significant rates, that would ruin their market entry.
 
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Amp output noise is probably in the order of 200-400uVrms, which was ok for class-D in 2009 but is not good today.
Below link shows measurements of a complete design including IRS2093.
0.06%THD+N at 100mW/4Ohm correspond to 380uVrms of mostly noise (unweighted).


In an active speaker, amps are part of the overall system-design.
Higher HW noise can, for example, be compensated by a voltage devider in front of the tweeter.
Obviously, the Orbits can be improved in the noise aspect.
 
How does the noise compare to the old Focal Alpha? I know them, and unlike their successors, they're not exactly the quietest monitors out there, they would bother me as computer speakers. If the Orbits are similar or even worse that would be a deal breaker.
The noise on the Orbit is much more noticeable. Especially since it's much broader in bandwidth.

This is a relative comparison by placing the mic on the center of the tweeter at the same distance. I used a spacer of about 5cm length to achieve the same distance from mic to tweeter on each speaker. Measurement is 8 averages each. Apollo twin mkii as interface for the mic.
1775992324776.png
 
This speaker really is meant for near field and the limitations at higher output really underline this. When used accordingly to its intended purpose it is a very enjoyable speaker and the combination of price, performance and package are extremely intriguing. I can totally see how the noise will be a dealbreaker for some and I sincerely hope, Palmer will update the design to address this.

Using the speaker with 2.5m listening distance in a large room, I cannot agree to the near-field statement. Below is a comparison of max SPL with Neumann KH150/310. You can see my comments in the linked thread.

It's the first time that I read someone actually boosting the bass for Orbits. Maybe non-optimum speaker placement without any room gain? I can see that with bass-boost one may reach SPL limits. With the speakers close to the rear wall, bass surely requires no boost for monitoring purpose.


1775992708574.png
 
Using the speaker with 2.5m listening distance in a large room, I cannot agree to the near-field statement. Below is a comparison of max SPL with Neumann KH150/310. You can see my comments in the linked thread.

It's the first time that I read someone actually boosting the bass for Orbits. Maybe non-optimum speaker placement without any room gain? I can see that with bass-boost one may reach SPL limits. With the speakers close to the rear wall, bass surely requires no boost for monitoring purpose.


View attachment 524075
Quite the opposite. The placement in the room is selected specifically for listening. Response is flat plusminus 2.5dB across the whole bandwidth at listening position. I enjoy a target with a slight bass bump for more impact.


Regarding the power amp: I wonder whether the design is derived from an LD Systems product? Something like a 3-way column array or something like that. In that application the noise will be a non issue.
 
Quite the opposite. The placement in the room is selected specifically for listening. Response is flat plusminus 2.5dB across the whole bandwidth at listening position. I enjoy a target with a slight bass bump for more impact.
So you chose the placement for flat response w/o EQ and then added the bass bump?
 
Has anyone had any experience with the Orbit and an active high-pass filter, such as the WiiM Ultra? A Q factor of 0.7 or 0.8 and a frequency around 25 Hz would be a good starting point for testing.

1000051094.png
 
Which is why one would then activate the near-wall placement EQ of the speakers and enjoy 6dB higher SPL without the limiter kicking in.
But the limiter is not kicking in. But the point of non linearity is reached quite early on the subs. It’s fine at 80ish spl but I wouldn’t want to drive constantly at 90 or more.
 
Has anyone had any experience with the Orbit and an active high-pass filter, such as the WiiM Ultra? A Q factor of 0.7 or 0.8 and a frequency around 25 Hz would be a good starting point for testing.

View attachment 524085
That’s how I use them. It’s have them connected to an ADI 2/4 Pro and an ARC Studio. I played around with highpass from 25-40Hz but didn’t notice much of an improvement in any case. Non linearity stays basically the same sans the frequencies that are cut off. But above cutoff it stays the same so it stands to reason that the „critical“ frequencies are even higher than that. I have yet to test that.


So meanwhile low-end distortion has become an issue? Close-wall room gain, which can be >6dB, will reduce distortion. That's the whole point.
It hasn’t been an issue for my use case but it would be an issue if I were to drive these at higher levels. Which I won’t since they’re plenty loud.
 
So I understand that you are basically happy with the sound in your use-case. It seems at times you would still desire higher output which makes you investigate (non-) linearity and you found that HP filters would not help with some "critical" frequency. What I don't get is the actual issue you see. Is it measured harmonic distortion or any kind of audible distortion?
 
So I understand that you are basically happy with the sound in your use-case. It seems at times you would still desire higher output which makes you investigate (non-) linearity and you found that HP filters would not help with some "critical" frequency. What I don't get is the actual issue you see. Is it measured harmonic distortion or any kind of audible distortion?
I am stating observations, not issues. The only actual issue for me is the noise (and the defective AES). Everything else is just playing around and testing for the sake of it.
 
I am stating observations, not issues. The only actual issue for me is the noise (and the defective AES). Everything else is just playing around and testing for the sake of it.
Don't let the fanbois stop your reporting.
 
Issues with the AES input were also mentioned by Stoneeh in his now deleted review-thread. Did you do any measurements that show the defect?
 
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