A little real world impression from someone with ATC, PMC and D&D speakers:
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Palmer Orbit 11 Monitor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
With all that bass traps standing around it's astonishing that he had to attenuate bass
A little bass monster ... 150Hz rear wall filter should help quite well.With all that bass traps standing around it's astonishing that he had to attenuate bass
At least it sounds good in my room. No measuremenst so far.
EQ band LOW Low Shelf, 100 Hz, Q 0.7
EQ band MID Peak, 1200 Hz, Q 0.5
EQ band HI High Shelf, 2700 Hz, Q 1.4
Filter DESK Peak, 380 Hz, Q 1.5, -2 dB
Filter REAR WALL - Larger Distance Low Shelf, 100 Hz, Q 0.9, -3 dB
Filter REAR WALL - Small Distance Low Shelf, 150 Hz, Q 0.9, -6 dB
https://gearspace.com/board/new-pro...lmer-announces-orbit-11-studio-monitor-3.html
A lot of broadband absorbers. I can't make out much from the picture. Presumably, there's a corner absorber in the cabinet to the right, behind the Orbit. But that's just a guess. And I can't say how deep it goes. For deep bass, you'd need larger absorbers, and for room modes, tuned absorbers like Helmholtz resonators would be good. Therefore, I can certainly understand the statement. Reverberation times should be studio standard if the rest of the room is also soundproofed to that extent.With all that bass traps standing around it's astonishing that he had to attenuate bass
The room seems quite small which may boost the bass. I would expect the same for the other speakers - at least above port resonance. Maybe these already run with room EQ. The Orbits will surely benefit from some custom EQ. A low-shelve at 250Hz may work well to reduce boost below cardioid mode. Spinorama EQ also looks very good on paper. So probably a good start although most likely not sufficient in a small room or with positions close to wall(s).
Question for y'all - is there another speaker available right now which is 3-way, coaxial, AND sealed? I think the Orbit is the only one available right now that combines all those things, right? The Ones are rear ported, for instance... Kali SM-8s are front ported... etc
Ocassional subscriber there too. He mentioned it being muddy far field, but I think smaller sized monitors sound like that from afar, at least that’s what I felt even with the neumann Kh150 4 meters away. Maybe more reflected sound from room due to their size?
ernestcarl
Major Contributor
The Ex Machina monitors seem to be sealed. But price point is way, way up there...
I particularly like the small "Titan" satellite monitor conceptually and aesthetically to place right directly above a nearfield desktop monitor setup.
The driver alone can be bought for DIY speakers, but the price for one is rather on the extreme end.
Due to cardioid dispersion the Orbit has low reflected sound above 250Hz. But below 250Hz bass is boosted in-room.
Terms "muddy" and "boomy" are associted with too much upper bass. So simply a question of EQ.
And I think due to spl capabilities of smaller speakers the further you go the lesser HF you hear. Inconsequential anyways I’m not using it in a hall and I’ll be getting mine along with the minidsp shd studio. Hope all goes well.
Thank you @illusonic, especially for posting the graph....Due to cardioid dispersion the Orbit has low reflected sound above 250Hz. But below 250Hz bass is boosted in-room.
Terms "muddy" and "boomy" are associated with too much upper bass. So simply a question of EQ.
Sokel
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Or with too much distortion in bass, resulting not only in the rubber bass as described but also to a one-note bass, as distortion is nearly comparable with the fundamental to it's frequency, essentially creating another note (frequency) .
One-note bass makes no sense as harmonic distortions are always multiples of the base frequency. If the base frequency changes harmonics change with it.
Sokel
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YHo
Just hit REW's dual tone generator and space frequency with distortion at mind (H3 if I remember well for Orbit), adjust amplitude of the second tone and your there.
It's super audible and that's only a hint.
It's super easy to test throwing off of the equation the room and distortion, with quality headphones for example.
Just hit REW's dual tone generator and space frequency with distortion at mind (H3 if I remember well for Orbit), adjust amplitude of the second tone and your there.
It's super audible and that's only a hint.
Thank you, @illusonic, the following measures are done by stoneeh....
- Palmer Orbit 11 - in-depth measurement (& real-world) review Part 1 by stoneeh
- Palmer Orbit 11 - in-depth measurement (& real-world) review Part 2 by stoneeh
- Software: ARTA, STEPS
- Sound Interface: Creative X-Fi USB HD
- Pre-Amp: IMG MPA-102
- Microphone: Isemcon EMX-7150 (Class 1 FR; calibrated; Max. SPL 135 dB @ 1% THD)
- SPL Calibrator: Isemcon SC-1 (Class 2, temperature & supply-voltage compensated; Accuracy +/- 0,5 dB)
- All on axis acoustic measurements were performed in ground plane (ref.: Groundplane Acoustic Measurement of Loudspeaker Systems - Gander, AES, 1980), in a true outdoor environment, with no relevant obstacles to the wavelengths in question, on a flat, hard surface on a wind free day.
- All on axis acoustic measurements performed at 2 metres distance. GPM 2m equals 4pi 1m.
- Off axis measurements performed on automatic turntable.
- Calibration is tested / verified before & after the measurement series.
- Measurements are repeated at least once, and the result only accepted as valid/reproducable if results from two or more measurements match perfectly (within tenths of a dB).
We are going in circles. Maybe we would like to avoid all distortion in bass. I don't think so but that's another story. If we want to avoid or at least minimize distortion, we need BIG speakers or some kind of feedback (motional or acoustic) or some kind of pre-compensation. All not exactly cheap as these require additinal HW and/or engineering efforts. Maybe most of us can live with distortion like Kii 3 or D&D 8C.
Last edited:
90sNintendoKid
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I want a detailed post and analysis with measurements about my experience of EQing and calibrating the Orbits.
I’m wondering if I should do a separate post or add it here.
I’m wondering if I should do a separate post or add it here.
Here or here
For example, the ME Geithain RL 934K. However, the price...
Ratterbass
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I have also received a pair. Some observations:
- LED can be deactivated by unplugging the cable on the preamp PCB. For those, who are actually bothered by it...
- AES input has severe high frequency reduction and immense gain. You really need to turn the signal down all the way and then carefully increase output on your source.
- Noise is noticeable. I dug around a bit and found that it originates in the power amp section. I unplugged the preamp from the power amp and shunted its inputs to ground. Noise remains unchanged. Power amp drivers are a pair of MC33078. Power amp controller is IRS2093MPbF, quite an old IC and the input noise stated in its datasheet seems extremely high to me, but I am not proficient enough in power amp design to make qualified comments regarding this choice. I expected something more modern like TPA3255, but again even though I am an EE, I am not qualified enough for judgment on this choice.
Sound comparison against Focal Alpha 65 (not evo):
- high end is more clear and less harsh. The Orbit sounds cleaner and less "hyped" while also staying analytical and open.
- mids are more relaxed and it feels like the speaker is struggling not as much to reproduce clear mids. Not surprising since I am comparing a 3-way to a 2-way system. Mids are also more pronounced, although it would be more accurate to say that the Focal tend to have underrepresented mids.
- lowend is crazy for the size. It can audibly go to close to 20Hz! On the focals, you stop hearing anything around 35Hz or so. Out of the box the Orbit sound less exciting and less punchy than the Focal, although this is also due to the Focals being tuned to a more "hyped" sound and the Orbit targeting a flat reproduction. I find that, contrary to many users here, a slight lowshelf bump is quite pleasant as it gives the sound more impact. Do note that I prefer a target that has a slight bump at 100Hz and below instead of ruler flat.
Low end distortion has not been an issue so far. The Focals have higher measureable distortion (over the whole bandwidth) at the same level. When doing slow sweeps at high-ish levels I notice some "rattling" similar to port turbulances (of course this speaker does not have a port). I guess if you really need (or want) superbly clean lowend, you will have to use a sizeable subwoofer as even regular 10 or 12" subs are not entirely clean as well.
This speaker really is meant for near field and the limitations at higher output really underline this. When used accordingly to its intended purpose it is a very enjoyable speaker and the combination of price, performance and package are extremely intriguing. I can totally see how the noise will be a dealbreaker for some and I sincerely hope, Palmer will update the design to address this.
I use an ARC studio to combat some of the flaws of the Focal, which works extremely well. The Orbit also profit from this although to a lesser degree since there are much less flaws to begin with and the ARC pretty much "only" needs to correct for room instead of room + speaker. But it's very useful to combat room modes at listening position.
- LED can be deactivated by unplugging the cable on the preamp PCB. For those, who are actually bothered by it...
- AES input has severe high frequency reduction and immense gain. You really need to turn the signal down all the way and then carefully increase output on your source.
- Noise is noticeable. I dug around a bit and found that it originates in the power amp section. I unplugged the preamp from the power amp and shunted its inputs to ground. Noise remains unchanged. Power amp drivers are a pair of MC33078. Power amp controller is IRS2093MPbF, quite an old IC and the input noise stated in its datasheet seems extremely high to me, but I am not proficient enough in power amp design to make qualified comments regarding this choice. I expected something more modern like TPA3255, but again even though I am an EE, I am not qualified enough for judgment on this choice.
Sound comparison against Focal Alpha 65 (not evo):
- high end is more clear and less harsh. The Orbit sounds cleaner and less "hyped" while also staying analytical and open.
- mids are more relaxed and it feels like the speaker is struggling not as much to reproduce clear mids. Not surprising since I am comparing a 3-way to a 2-way system. Mids are also more pronounced, although it would be more accurate to say that the Focal tend to have underrepresented mids.
- lowend is crazy for the size. It can audibly go to close to 20Hz! On the focals, you stop hearing anything around 35Hz or so. Out of the box the Orbit sound less exciting and less punchy than the Focal, although this is also due to the Focals being tuned to a more "hyped" sound and the Orbit targeting a flat reproduction. I find that, contrary to many users here, a slight lowshelf bump is quite pleasant as it gives the sound more impact. Do note that I prefer a target that has a slight bump at 100Hz and below instead of ruler flat.
Low end distortion has not been an issue so far. The Focals have higher measureable distortion (over the whole bandwidth) at the same level. When doing slow sweeps at high-ish levels I notice some "rattling" similar to port turbulances (of course this speaker does not have a port). I guess if you really need (or want) superbly clean lowend, you will have to use a sizeable subwoofer as even regular 10 or 12" subs are not entirely clean as well.
This speaker really is meant for near field and the limitations at higher output really underline this. When used accordingly to its intended purpose it is a very enjoyable speaker and the combination of price, performance and package are extremely intriguing. I can totally see how the noise will be a dealbreaker for some and I sincerely hope, Palmer will update the design to address this.
I use an ARC studio to combat some of the flaws of the Focal, which works extremely well. The Orbit also profit from this although to a lesser degree since there are much less flaws to begin with and the ARC pretty much "only" needs to correct for room instead of room + speaker. But it's very useful to combat room modes at listening position.
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